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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

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Shazamataz

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No I dont keep the sabbath or only eat certain meats. I dont believe that I am sinning by not doing those things either. I go to a baptist church and they dont teach any of those things. In my opinion that is being legalistic, by worrying about those things. I think that following Jesus is what matters the most. At the same time, I respect people who DO that. I honestly dont know a lot about the sda's though... hope this helps?
 
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Asgb

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No I dont keep the sabbath or only eat certain meats. I dont believe that I am sinning by not doing those things either. I go to a baptist church and they dont teach any of those things. In my opinion that is being legalistic, by worrying about those things. I think that following Jesus is what matters the most. At the same time, I respect people who DO that. I honestly dont know a lot about the sda's though... hope this helps?

Thanks for taking your time to reply, I appreciate your opinion. What would you tell someone who is undecided on this issue?
 
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joey_downunder

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I don't know anything about the SDA's either. I am curious - if you disobey these rules do they question your salvation? I agree with Shazamataz.

Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

If you are happy in that church even though you may decide that these rules are not necessary, the whole chapter of Romans 14 will help you.

ROmans 14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand....... 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
 
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Asgb

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I don't know anything about the SDA's either. I am curious - if you disobey these rules do they question your salvation? I agree with Shazamataz.

Yes, they say its part of the Ten commandments and is like every other sin.

If you are happy in that church even though you may decide that these
rules are not necessary, the whole chapter of romans 14 will help you.

They say that romans 14 is speaking in regards to foods sacrificed to idols, therefore when ever someone use this they say that the person is using it out of context.
 
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DrFrank

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The dietary laws that are taught in Seventh Day Adventist churches are Old Testament laws that Christians are not required to follow.However the law to keep the Sabbath day (the entire day) holy is one of the Ten Commandments that Christians must obey under penalty of punishment.

Matthew 5:17-19 (New King James Version)



17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Don't you wonder what kind of minister would teach his congregation to violate the Ten Commandments?:sick:
 
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The Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) decided which Jewish customs were to be kept by Gentile Christians. The Apostles decided that non-Jewish believers were to "abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality" (Acts 15:29). The Sabbath and the dietary laws were not included.
 
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joey_downunder

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Yes, they say its part of the Ten commandments and is like every other sin.

They say that romans 14 is speaking in regards to foods sacrificed to idols, therefore when ever someone use this they say that the person is using it out of context.


OK, that is adding law to the Bible just like the Galatians did.

It sounds like SDA teaches salvation = "clean foods" + faith

Some Galatians taught salvation = circumcision + faith

You should study the whole book of Galatians to see how legalism was condemned by the apostle Paul.

Galatians 3: 23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Galatians Series. A commentary on Paul's epistle to the Galatians.
 
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stormdancer0

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We keep Sabbath on Sunday for a reason. A couple of them, actually.

The most basic answer is, Sunday is the day Christ rose.

Plus, in the beginnings of the church, Christians would attend Sabbath worship on Saturday, then get together on Sunday to celebrate the Lord's Supper, the Resurrection, and discuss/teach how Christ had fulfilled the law. As Gentiles were allowed more and more into the church, the Jewish Christians were thrown out of the synagogues, and were not allowed to worship there. So, Sunday was the worship day.

I don't think God cares which day we observe, because worship shouldn't be confined to one day. Sabbath was supposed to be the day God's people came together to learn and be reminded of His laws. And also, to rest. But our entire lives should be a worship to God. If you are not worshiping God on Monday with your work, I don't think He accepts your worship on Sunday. Or Saturday.
 
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Hotpepper

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I sometimes go to an SDA church, I also regularly worship on Sundays. Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc.. not one of them is infallible in their theology. Only the Word of God is infallible. There is truth to be found in many (not all) denominations granted that we use the BIBLE as the final authority and not blindly follow the theology of men. This is the importance of studying and getting to know the Word of God. Do I agree 100% with the SDA? No. Do I agree 100% with Baptists? No. But do I agree with them and believe upon the foundation of the gospel of Christ; that He was God in the flesh and willingly died on the cross for me and the sins of the world. That He willingly sacrificed himself in our behalf out of a fervent love that far surpasses any man or angel because "They" in a singular plurality (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) ARE LOVE. That Jesus Christ was raised again three days later and appeared before the apostles and eventually before hundreds, having conquered the law of sin and death. That Jesus gave and continues to give freely His gift of grace through faith in HIM so that the entire world could have hope of eternal life to all that look to him with a sincere heart renewed by the Holy Spirit? YES!

Would it be right to NOT consider the members of these churches brothers or sisters in Christ just because the theology of the denomination differs with what is considered ceremonial law or not or if it is necessary for baptism? Some of the distinctions between denominations are so small that it is barely noticeable and yet others are drastic. Does that mean that you HAVE to believe them? Absolutely not, because the Word of God is what we follow not theology. Likewise not every single man and woman within the same denomination are in 100% agreement. To believe that all of one denomination is infallible and dismiss all others as complete falsehood is not only unfair but it is self-righteous to make such a biased judgment. Again, I know that there are some that the very foundation is based upon other than what the bible says and I am not speaking of these. The Word of God is our standard of measure not our own understanding.

I personally keep the Sabbath. Why? Definitely NOT because of commandment, instead it is because I WANT to observe the day of our Creator out of LOVE and remembrance of Him creating our very existence. Likewise I worship on Sunday and consider many to be my brothers and sisters. We need to bring unity in Christ and not continue to separate ourselves. We all have our own personal walks with the Lord and each one of us varies in belief in one way or another. This is the reality of things on earth but we should ALL strive to be in one mind and in one spirit with one another but we cannot do this if we continue to separate ourselves.

God bless every one of you and bring you PEACE.
 
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Shazamataz

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The dietary laws that are taught in Seventh Day Adventist churches are Old Testament laws that Christians are not required to follow.However the law to keep the Sabbath day (the entire day) holy is one of the Ten Commandments that Christians must obey under penalty of punishment.

Matthew 5:17-19 (New King James Version)



17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Don't you wonder what kind of minister would teach his congregation to violate the Ten Commandments?:sick:

I'm curious... what is the penalty of punishment you talk about for the 10 Commandments?

Hotpepper, I just want to say well said! We need to be unified in Christ! It reminds me of the Corinthians who were bickering over whether they followed Paul or Apollos. We follow JESUS not any man!
 
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jeshy03

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Do you believe that Christ requires us to keep the 7th day holy?
Do you believe that we should not eat meats such as pork, shrimp, frogs, crabs, etc?

I go to a seventh day adventist church and this is what they teach, I wanted to hear some of your opinions about this. Are those of us that don't keep the sabbath day in sin?

Nice question, :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I remember some of teaching of Pastor Ed Lapiz here in the Philippines about that . .

Let's talk about the eating unclean foods:

If I'm not mistaken those passages that states us not to eat meat, ostrich, animal's blood etc.. etc.. (Law of Moses) for they are unclean is in Leviticus(Please correct me if I'm wrong :thumbsup:) . .

Luke 24:41 stated that Jesus eat broiled fish . .

Jesus is so Holy that all things that are unclean when he touches it it'll be clean . . Just think about the woman who is bleeding(Bleeding Woman is unclean) for many Years but when he touch the tip of Jesus clothes(not any parts of the body) she instantly heals.

So when you eat pray before you eat and let Jesus Christ touch your food .. .. you see Jesus Christ gives us more reason to pray . .. ..

About the Sabbath day:

Just read Mark 2:23 - 3:5 (you'll see how Our Lord Jesus Christ says about what should we do in sabbath day).. .. .. ..
 
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childofGod31

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Do you believe that Christ requires us to keep the 7th day holy?
Do you believe that we should not eat meats such as pork, shrimp, frogs, crabs, etc?

I go to a seventh day adventist church and this is what they teach, I wanted to hear some of your opinions about this. Are those of us that don't keep the sabbath day in sin?


Ask God to reveal it to you. You should live according to your conscience. Although personally I don't believe in observing the Sabbath. Sabbath was a symbol which represented salvation in Jesus. And therefore, when Jesus come (who is a fulfillment of the symbol), there is no need to observe symbol anymore. Ask God to show you the truth in the following verses:

Col 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, Col 2:14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. ...Col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Paul shows that it's ok to do either way: either observe or not observe. What matters is your heart and what you believe. You should live according to what you believe. If you can believe that you don't need to observe it, then you are ok not to observe it. If you believe that you would sin by not observing, then according to your conscience, you need to observe it. But perhaps these words of Paul will show you that it doesn't matter one way or the other:

Rom 14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.
Rom 14:2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.
Rom 14:8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
Rom 14:9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.





Col 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:
Col 2:21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"?
Col 2:22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
Col 2:23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.



Paul is talking to those who live under the law and obey its regulations:

Gal 4:9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
Gal 4:10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.


Gal 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
Gal 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
Gal 3:4 Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?
Gal 3:5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
Gal 3:6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Gal 3:7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."
Gal 3:9 So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Gal 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
Gal 3:11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
Gal 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
Gal 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
 
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Jeremiah25

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Dear Asgb:

When the Holy Spirit comes into our being at the time of regeneration, one of the responsibilities that He has is to lead us to the truth. The Holy Spirit gives us discernment concerning all things pertaining to the Will of God. Now, where do we go from here? The first question to ask is: do you have the Holy Spirit abiding in you? If so then you have the same Spirit within you is that same Spirit that gave us the revealed will of God through the Holy Scriptures. The first step to take in seeking the answer to your question is actually to seek the heart and will of God. All that is required is that you possess a sincere desire to love and be pleasing to God; to follow that light which you already possess and seek His will alone. Going to God as a child goes to his father, you pour your heart out to Him and tell Him that you are confused because there are some people teaching things that you are unsure about. He who knows the hearts of men will know if you sincerely desire to know His will concerning this matter. And as a father instructs his child in the way he should go, teaching him ONLY what is right and true, so too will your Heavenly Father give you revelation concerning this matter. More than likely He will direct you to His revealed will concerning the matter in His Word. The revelation will come by way of the Holy Spirit enlightening not only your mind but your heart. And remember always seek God's council FIRST through prayer and supplication with thanksgiving. Man is fallible and capable of erring. God is infallible and cannot lead you astray.

I pray this helps you. All that we do, we must do as unto the LORD.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Dear Asgb:

When the Holy Spirit comes into our being at the time of regeneration, one of the responsibilities that He has is to lead us to the truth. The Holy Spirit gives us discernment concerning all things pertaining to the Will of God. Now, where do we go from here? The first question to ask is: do you have the Holy Spirit abiding in you? If so then you have the same Spirit within you is that same Spirit that gave us the revealed will of God through the Holy Scriptures. The first step to take in seeking the answer to your question is actually to seek the heart and will of God. All that is required is that you possess a sincere desire to love and be pleasing to God; to follow that light which you already possess and seek His will alone. Going to God as a child goes to his father, you pour your heart out to Him and tell Him that you are confused because there are some people teaching things that you are unsure about. He who knows the hearts of men will know if you sincerely desire to know His will concerning this matter. And as a father instructs his child in the way he should go, teaching him ONLY what is right and true, so too will your Heavenly Father give you revelation concerning this matter. More than likely He will direct you to His revealed will concerning the matter in His Word. The revelation will come by way of the Holy Spirit enlightening not only your mind but your heart. And remember always seek God's council FIRST through prayer and supplication with thanksgiving. Man is fallible and capable of erring. God is infallible and cannot lead you astray.

I pray this helps you. All that we do, we must do as unto the LORD.
awesome post
 
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