Do you believe in the Resurrection?

[Timothew]

Rich coming from the person who claims we all perish at death when God clearly told His followers they would not perish AND same person then attempts to claim that is ok to say we all perish one time as long as His followers "return" from that state to "never perish again".

You don't know what I believe and every time you try to say what I believe you get it wrong.

 

[Edgar44]

You don't know what I believe and every time you try to say what I believe you get it wrong.

Why not tell him what it is you do believe?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

You don't know what I believe and every time you try to say what I believe you get it wrong.

So it is repeatedly claimed.

And which part did I get wrong?

That you hold to the annihilation of the damned?

Or that you have posted that the damned after Judgement return to the state they were in before they were "resurrected"?

Or that such statements then require that all the dead are currently (and until resurrection) in the same state one alleges the damned will return to after Judgement?

Or that one maintains the damned perish after Judgement never to "return" again?

Or that one has essentially claimed Christ followers cannot be said to perish because they "return" from being perished only to never perish again?

Or that such statements mean one is essentially saying we all perish, and then we all return from being "perished" at a "resurrection"?

 

[Der Alte]

Why not tell him what it is you do believe?

What's the fun in that? That does not leave one any room for plausible deniablity. “I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”

 

[DrBubbaLove]

The really fun part is they never deny what I understood them to say, just claim the conclusions reached from what they said are wrong because they say so.

 

[he-man]

LOL. You did. If the gold fish is instantly vaporized when it is dead, where is the "existence" then?
If we must I will find the post where you specifically said the damned after Judgement 'return' to the "state" they were in before resurrection never to "return" from that "state" again. Whether one likes to call that "state" annihilation or not does not matter. Clearly that is saying death=perish=annihilation and that we all cease to exist when we die. So the promise of God to His Followers becomes Him saying they will never perish twice.

However those that commit to idol worship and refuse to accept God: Jer 51:39 In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD. 40 I will bring them down like lambs to the slaughter, like rams with he goats.

So unless one is going to back pedal and retract things regarding one's view of death/Judgement which am fairly certain have been repeated often, the only difference between the damned and the followers of Christ in such a view is that the followers do not perish twice like the damned do.

Have you ever heard of double jeopardy? What need would God have to condemn someone twice for the same crime?
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. ¨

ολεθρος For a somewhat weakened use of this strong word, which in Biblical usage implies "ruin," the loss of all that gives worth to existence (see Milligan ad 1 Thess 5 3 ), cf. BGU IV. IO27 xxvi.11 (iv/A.D.)
σλεθρος, οv, δ (Hom. t ; Dit., Syll 3 527, 82 [c. 220 so]; BGU 1027 xxvi, 11; LΧΧ; Philo; Jos., Ant. 17, 38, Vi. 264; Sib. Or. 3, 327; 348) destruction, ruin, death in our lit, always w. some kind of relig. coloring: έρχεταί τινι όλ. ruin comes upon someone 1 Cl 57: 4 (Pr 1: 26).

αiwνιος τοις έφίστατa: όλ. sudden destruction will come upon them 1 Th 5: 3. βνθί3ειν τινά εΙς όλ. plunge someone headlong into ruin 1 Ti 8: 9. όλ. αίώνιος eternal death (Test. Reub. 6: 3) 2 Th 1: 9 (s. όλέθριο&#962. παρaδουναί Twa τ;5 σατανα εlς όλ. ·ής σαρκός hand someone over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh

I Cor 5: 5 (handing over to Satan will result in the sinner's death.—ΕνDοbschϋtz, Die urchristl. Gemeinden '02, 289-72 and s. παρaδΙδωμι lb). Destruction brought about by Satan is mentioned also IEph 13:1 όταν πυκνως επι το αυτο γινεσθε, καθαιρουνται αι συναμεις του σατσωα και λυεται ο ολ αυτου when you come tοgether frequently, the (spirit.) powers of Satan are destroyed, and his destructiveness is nulίified. M-M.

"Fear of the LORD is a life-giving fountain; it offers escape from the snares of death" (Proverbs 14:27, New Living Translation, NLT).

Luke 12:4 And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. (5) But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

For exx. of the adj. ολεθριος, which is read by Lachmann in 2 Thess I: 9 , see Cronert Mem. Herc. p. 186.
M-M Moultton- Milligan Page 445.

ὀλέθρου πείρατα, like τέλος θανάτοιο, the consummation of death, 6.143 ; ὄ., opp. γένεσις, Parm.8.21 , 27

DIE [verb.] 1. θνησκω, to die, be dying of natural as of violent death.
2 .αποθνησκω, to die out, expire, become quite dead.
3. τελευταω, to end, i.e. to finish, to complete ; hence, to end one's life, to die.
4.απολλυμι, to destroy wholly, cause to perish, (see "DESTROY," No. 1.) (a) Mid., of persons, to be put to death5. εις απωλεια, destruction
Bullinger P. 223

PERISH (-ED, -.) 1. απολλυμι, to destroy, cause to perish. Here, mid., (which is peculiar to N.T. Oreek) used of the eternal doom of the sinner, (chiefly by Paul and John) to be utterly and finally ruined and destroyed, to be lost, brought to nought, put to death . Bullinger P. 581

(In N.T. the future punisJiment of sin is clearly defined as death and destruction.) (non occ.)
ολεθρευω ολοθρευω destroy; *ολεθριος, [for ολεθρος, 2 Thes. 1.9, see destruction] Bullinger P. 971
ὀλέθρου πείρατα, Like θανάτου τέλος, the consummation of death , Il.:— οὐκ εἰς ὄλεθρον;

Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

 

[Edgar44]

What's the fun in that? That does not leave one any room for plausible deniablity. “I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”

Well written, I'm still trying to get my head around it, but I know it's good.

Made me smile. (Sorry Timothew)

Did you construct that sentence yourself?

 

[Edgar44]

Obviously not then.

 

[Edgar44]

The scriptures talk about people being resurrected with their physical bodies. Do you believe we will really be resurrected or do you believe we will be random, sexless (male or female) spirits floating around? Why?

Can I ask, where in the Bible does it state we will be resurrected 'with their physical bodies'?

 

[megaflies]

According to a lot of what I have heard, there wont be anyone to resurrect because everybody thinks that when they die they are going to heaven.

 

[Edgar44]

According to a lot of what I have heard, there wont be anyone to resurrect because everybody thinks that when they die they are going to heaven.

I don't.

I believe we will go to a place that each of us builds while here on earth.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Our life will determine our afterlife.

We develop our spiritual being while here on the earth, just as the baby develops lungs while within the womb.

The lungs of the baby not being required until the baby is born. In the same way, our spiritual development while on the earth, comes into full effect after we leave our physical body.

We lead a good life, we get a good reward. We lead a bad life, we get a bad reward.

 

[Evergreen48]

I don't.

I believe we will go to a place that each of us builds while here on earth.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Our life will determine our afterlife.

We develop our spiritual being while here on the earth, just as the baby develops lungs while within the womb.

The lungs of the baby not being required until the baby is born. In the same way, our spiritual development while on the earth, comes into full effect after we leave our physical body.

We lead a good life, we get a good reward. We lead a bad life, we get a bad reward.

That surely could be right Edgar. I've wondered quite a bit if this might be the way it goes. However, those before Christ, or the identities of those ones, were resurrected. But as stated before, we who believe in the risen Christ will not need to be resurrected, as we shall never die to start with.

 

[Edgar44]

That surely could be right Edgar. I've wondered quite a bit if this might be the way it goes. However, those before Christ, or the identities of those ones, were resurrected. But as stated before, we who believe in the risen Christ will not need to be resurrected, as we shall never die to start with.

When you say, "as we shall never die to start with." What do you mean by this, do you mean you will never physically die?

Because my understanding of resurrection has nothing to do with the physical body.

It is my understanding that resurrection means to return to life, the same kind of life, we lost at the fall.

 

[.Iona.]

Do I believe in the resurrection? Absolutely.

 

[Joseph474]

True.
Please visit heavenvisit.com
I was completely shocked and frightened after that.

 

[Timothew]

True.
Please visit heavenvisit.com
I was completely shocked and frightened after that.

There's a lot of stuff there.

Can you post a sum up?

 

[Norah63]

After receiving Jesus Christ there is peace joy and love in the Holy Spirit.
No need to be shocked or frightened after that. Religion isn't scary, it is just rituals.
Jesus always enters with the word Peace.
The Resurrection is our promise of eternal life.
(each sees that how they will to see it right now)
lets just all rejoice in the knowledge that eternal life is our future!

 

[gord44]

I don't think it will be like some imagine it where we walk around and see old friends and loved ones. Our ego's will be destroyed and we will be united with the Divine source. Our attachments that we had in this life to family and friends will be unimportant as we dwell in the eternal glow of the Almighty.

 

[Evergreen48]

When you say, "as we shall never die to start with." What do you mean by this, do you mean you will never physically die?

No, of course not. Scripture teaches that it has been appointed to every person once to die. (Heb. 9:27.) Yet Jesus told Martha that " . . . . whosoever lived and believed in him would never die." (John 11:26.)

Because my understanding of resurrection has nothing to do with the physical body.

Nor does mine. This physicl body "profits nothing", (John 6:63.) So what would the purpose be for its resurrection? It was only the identity of the person that God remembered and resurrected. "There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body". (1Cor. 15:44.) When the identity of the person stood to life again it passed into the spiritual body which has been prepared for it. (2Cor. 5:1.)

Only those before Christ's redemptive work took place needed to be resurrected. Since that time of redemption which brought forth the resurrection of those who had "fallen asleep in Chirst", those who believe in Christ, as he has promised, will never die and will not need to be resurrected. At the death of their natural, earthly body they will pass into the spiritual body which awaits them.

 

[Edgar44]

No, of course not. Scripture teaches that it has been appointed to every person once to die. (Heb. 9:27.) Yet Jesus told Martha that " . . . . whosoever lived and believed in him would never die." (John 11:26.)



Nor does mine. This physicl body "profits nothing", (John 6:63.) So what would the purpose be for its resurrection? It was only the identity of the person that God remembered and resurrected. "There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body". (1Cor. 15:44.) When the identity of the person stood to life again it passed into the spiritual body which has been prepared for it. (2Cor. 5:1.)

Only those before Christ's redemptive work took place needed to be resurrected. Since that time of redemption which brought forth the resurrection of those who had "fallen asleep in Chirst", those who believe in Christ, as he has promised, will never die and will not need to be resurrected. At the death of their natural, earthly body they will pass into the spiritual body which awaits them.

Thank you Evergreen, you explained very well. I am in complete agreement with your assessment of resurrection as explained here.

Do you mind if I ask for your opinion on what you think about the following verse...........

Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, 'the redemption of our body..