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Do you believe in Once Saved Always Saved theology?

Do you believe in Once Saved Always Saved theology?

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ThereseTheLittleFlower

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I don't believe, in Once Saved, Always Saved.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is an unforgivable, and also, we can't just go through our life doing whatever we want, Jesus dying for us, doesn't mean we can do whatever, we still have to follow his teachings, the 10 Commandments, etc.

Renee
 
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@@Paul@@

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ThereseTheLittleFlower said:
I don't believe, in Once Saved, Always Saved.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is an unforgivable, and also, we can't just go through our life doing whatever we want, Jesus dying for us, doesn't mean we can do whatever, we still have to follow his teachings, the 10 Commandments, etc.

Renee
Then it's a good thing Christians today cannot commit the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit... :)
 
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GreenEyedLady

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ThereseTheLittleFlower said:
I don't believe, in Once Saved, Always Saved.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is an unforgivable, and also, we can't just go through our life doing whatever we want, Jesus dying for us, doesn't mean we can do whatever, we still have to follow his teachings, the 10 Commandments, etc.

Renee
tell me, those who have had the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, HOW can that person blasphmey the Holy Spirit?
I do not for the life of me understand how someone can say that Christ's work on the cross was not POWERFUL enough to keep us saved.
It is sad.
GEL
 
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@@Paul@@

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ThereseTheLittleFlower said:
His death on the cross, was powerful it just doesn't mean we can go through life thinking, we can do whatever we want, because we won't be sent to Hell for it.

Renee
Even OSAS'rs do not believe we can do whatever we want because we will NOT be sent to hell for it (doing whatever we want).

:)
 
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rural_preacher

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ThereseTheLittleFlower said:
His death on the cross, was powerful it just doesn't mean we can go through life thinking, we can do whatever we want, because we won't be sent to Hell for it.

Renee
That is why we find statements such as these in God's Word:

Romans 6:1, 2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
Ephesians 4:25-32
Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another. "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil. Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
In these verses, we are not instructed to put away sin so that we don't lose our salvation; rather, we are instructed to put away sin so that we do not grieve the Holy Spirit who lives inside us and has sealed us. When we sin, we do not risk chasing Him away - we risk His chastening.

Galatians 5:16-18, 22-26
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Praise God! :clap:
 
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carmi

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Holly3278 said:
Seebs, this is the explanation I heard while going to a Fundamentalist Baptist Church for Hebrews 6:4-6. Here is the verses in the KJV:

[bible]Hebrews 6:4-6[/bible]

AThe precedig (with the exception of Titus, 1 & 2 Timotheus and Philemon - written to individuals), are written, addressed (carry the name) of cities. Paul greets members of churches, saints in that city and the area.

There is no such greeting in Hebrews. It is an epistle to the Hebrews (there is no city or area named Hebrew or Hebrews). That cannot be a coincidence. The epistle to the Hebrews starts off completely different than those written to Romans, Philipians etc. etc.

While I believe that the epistle is not exclusively written to Hebrews, I think it is written to the Hebrews in the first place. And Hebrews is followed by James who writes to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad. Again, I believe James is not exclusively written to the 12 tribes and Peter writes his first epistle to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynja. And again, I don't believe it's written exclusively to these strangers.

They were written to them, but for us as well.

If I am in doubt, or when I see a contradiction (apparent contradiction), I would go to those epistles that were written to and for us. But I can't give one verse in the Bible where it says, one should do that - it's just my personal belief/opinion.
 
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@@Paul@@

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carmi said:
AThe precedig (with the exception of Titus, 1 & 2 Timotheus and Philemon - written to individuals), are written, addressed (carry the name) of cities. Paul greets members of churches, saints in that city and the area.

There is no such greeting in Hebrews. It is an epistle to the Hebrews (there is no city or area named Hebrew or Hebrews). That cannot be a coincidence. The epistle to the Hebrews starts off completely different than those written to Romans, Philipians etc. etc.

While I believe that the epistle is not exclusively written to Hebrews, I think it is written to the Hebrews in the first place. And Hebrews is followed by James who writes to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad. Again, I believe James is not exclusively written to the 12 tribes and Peter writes his first epistle to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynja. And again, I don't believe it's written exclusively to these strangers.

They were written to them, but for us as well.

If I am in doubt, or when I see a contradiction (apparent contradiction), I would go to those epistles that were written to and for us. But I can't give one verse in the Bible where it says, one should do that - it's just my personal belief/opinion.
Thanks carmi, here's a thought... I have heard that it's possible Galatians was the Cover Letter to Hebrews. Which would be why it starts of like no other NT writing.

Some suppose the letter heading was simply "To the Hebrews..."

Hebrews has one thing in mind. "A Prize" or there is something to earn; much like the letter to the Philippines…
Phi 3:12-15 KJV Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. (13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, (14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (15) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.​

One does not have to be “perfect” to have eternal life in Christ; that my friends would be impossible. But we are called to be as perfect as we can be. Notice what Paul says in verses 14 and 15 above…
I press on after a mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Then as many as are perfect, let us be of this mind; and if you think anything differently, God will also reveal this to you. (Phi 3:14-15 LITV)​
...We (as many as are perfect) should strive for the prize. Paul also describes this aspect of our walk with Christ as a Race.
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1Co 9:24-27 KJV)​
We are called to run in a race with the prize of an incorruptible crown. We cannot lose our hope of eternal life in Christ, but we can through continual disobedience be “castaway” out of the race. Therefore “keep under our bodies, and bring it into subjection”.

This is the aspect of our salvation, which Paul addressed in Hebrews; James also addresses it in James. It’s our walk by faith, which earns us our “incorruptible crown”. That faith in what we have to GAIN assures us our reward is does NOT assure us of our salvation.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8-9 KJV)
We need to accept what Paul says in Eph 2:8-9, not of works by grace, and realize that same faith continues to grow and it what strives us on to perfection (simply being saved does not make you perfect).
The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
(Luk 6:40 KJV)
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
(Phi 3:11-12 KJV)
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Phi 3:15 KJV)
Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
(1Th 3:10 KJV)
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(2Ti 3:16-17 KJV)​


So to some up…
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. (Heb 12:2-3 KJV)​
Hebrews is also talking to Hebrews about the race they must run and the prize they have to earn. Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith; there can be no compromise. :) Now to those pesky verses…

Heb 6:1-6 KJV Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God…​
Therefore; the very first thing you should ask is “therefore what?”- Let’s jump back to chapter 5.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Heb 5:12-14 KJV)​
So, because you are of “full age”, are able to eat meat and can discern both good and evil (in otherwords they HAVE eternal life in Christ)… let us go on to perfection and EARN something (back to Hebrews chapter 6)
… (2) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (3) And this will we do, if God permit. (4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Now, what I am saying is that this verse has NOTHING to do with what you will receive by simply believing that Jesus Christ rose from the dead… These people here were (1) “once enlightened”…
Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, (Eph 1:16-18 KJV)​
Enlightenment come AFTER salvation and through prayer as Paul stated in Eph 1 above. These Hebrews were also said to have (2) tasted of the heavenly gift (3) made partakers of the Holy Ghost (4) have tasted the good word of God (5) and the powers of the world to come.

Those the powers of the world to come have not even been dished fully yet; we had a foretaste I the Gospels AND in the beginning parts of Acts… No one today can bring a person back from the DEAD. No one can WALK on water and NO ONE can call fire down from heaven. --------- In any case. Hebrews, just like Philippians, has a goal in mind, which is what those who fall away could not be renewed unto repentance back to…

Take the fornicator in 1 Cor 5 for example.
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
(1Co 5:1-5 KJV)​
This man abided in sin, was judged by God and killed for what he did. However, his spirit will be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


Now, what prize was Hebrews talking about?
(Heb 4:4 KJV) For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
(Heb 4:8 KJV) For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
(Heb 4:9 KJV) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.​
…It’s talking about earning entrance into “His Rest” Or, the millennial rest.
(Heb 3:11 KJV) So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
(Heb 3:18 KJV) And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
(Heb 4:1 KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
(Heb 4:3 KJV) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
(Heb 4:5 KJV) And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
(Heb 4:11 KJV) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.​

That is something they (and us today) can fall short of earning, and has nothing to do with our salvation from the penalty of sin.
 
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mesue

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I have posted this before and I'll probably post it again.
It saves these weary hands from a lot of typing.

Some things for you to consider and to know why I know that I will never lose my salvation.
Jesus promised that I cannot lose my salvation:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37)

(note Jesus didn’t say “Except for that sin unto death”)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)

(note Jesus didn’t say “Except for that sin unto death”)

Further, that I cannot do anything to lose my salvation because:

Salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works. It is a gift from God. No man can lose his salvation on his own, because no man earned his salvation.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

If I had to do anything to earn or keep my salvation, I would easily lose it.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)

Yet 2 Timothy assures us it is Jesus Christ who keeps us, not we ourselves.

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

(2 Timothy 1:12)

Galatians 2:21 states clearly that if we could become righteous by anything we do, then Jesus Christ’s death was in vein.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

(Galatians 2:21)

God won’t cast me out, no man can cause me to lose my salvation, I cannot lose it myself and there is nothing else to make me lose my salvation

For I am persuaded, that neither

death, - you cannot lose it when you die

nor life, - you cannot lose it while you’re alive

nor angels, - cannot take it away from you

nor principalities, - the government can’t take it from you.

nor powers, - the devil cannot cause you to lose it.

nor things present, - nothing happening right now

nor things to come, - nothing happening in the future.

Nor height, - nothing above you.

nor depth, - nothing below you.

nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

Does this mean I can go on and knowingly sin? Absolutely not!

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (Romans 6:15)

But how I serve the Lord while here on earth will be judged.

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1Corinthians 3:13-15)
 
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BlackSaab52

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I believe in it, but I take a more Calvinist approach to it (aka "Perseverence of the Saints"). I believe that since God has elected some to salvation, then likewise He also He predestines their perseverence and final glorification, so that they will not finally fall away and be lost, but will ultimately make it to Heaven. I don't believe that an apostate was ever truly saved (I John 2:18-19). Of course, there are some verses which make me doubt eternal security, but I guess I will never fully understand the Bible. This is a good article to read for a good perspective on the relation of perseverence to eternal security.

http://www.internetmonk.com/race.html

The Bible does teach that God will complete what He started in us (Phil 1:6), but it also teaches that we must persevere to the end (Colossians 1:22-23, Matthew 24:13). It's just that we are persevered to the end by God's grace. So this is why I prefer to call it "Perseverence of the Saints" instead of "Once Saved Always Saved."
 
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@@Paul@@

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Just because i'm on a roll, here's a question for any that read my previous post in this thread... :D
Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?​
James was written to the "twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" the same group the book to the Hebrews was written too... :)

In the phrase "can faith save him" what "salvation" is James talking about? :)
 
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@@Paul@@

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Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
(Phi 2:12-13 KJV)​
Why would we need to WORK out our own salvation with fear and trembling?

:)
 
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carmi

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@@Paul@@ said:
... I have heard that it's possible Galatians was the Cover Letter to Hebrews. Which would be why it starts of like no other NT writing.

Thanks, Paul. I never heard that before but it's an interesting explanation.

As to the rest of your post, I need to go over it a few times - somehow my mind is feebler than usual today.
 
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ZiSunka

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I believe that if a person is really saved, they are really permanently saved, yes, because salvation is by faith and faith is from God. In order for a person to "lose" their salvation, God would have to take back his gift of faith.

But I believe that there are a lot of people who seem to be saved, but they don't have a saving faith in Christ. They mimic Christians, but they don't really have an interest in having a relationship with Christ.

Sometimes these are the busiest people in a church because they are trying to please God without having that relationship, and because they aren't getting good feedback from Him on their performance, they try harder and work harder, hoping to do enough to please God. There are still a lot of people who believe that going to church and doing good is what gets you into heaven, and yes, even people who go to church still believe this. Eventually they get tired of all of it and fall away from the Christian lifestyle and show that they never really knew Him at all.
 
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