Do You Believe In Courtship?

[JoieDeVivre]

A conversation I had with a friend last week had me thinking about courtship after he said he doesn't believe in it. He said it's a "waste of time and money, and girls use it to get a free meal." [my friend's obviously non-C].

If I remember correctly what Elisabeth Elliot wrote in Passion and Purity, a romantic relationship begins with friendship, then progresses with courtship, and finally, the end result is the relationship itself. Do you think it is possible to skip the courtship part?

Also, what, in your opinion, constitutes courtship?

 

[DJ_1]

I'm not sure what your friend doesn't believe - not ever taking a girl out?- he will not get far whether or not he is a Christian

I think the words courtship and dating mean different things to different people & it is more important to understand the concepts behind these terms. It does not necessarily mean different behavior, but different motivations for the behavior. I think of courtship as meaning spending time with/developing a relationship with/communicating with a person who you are considering as a future spouse. With courting, since both parties are considering the future/long-term implications, there is less decision making based solely on feelings/or momentary gratification. I think that this attitute helps both parties to be more honest with each other up front, rather than trying pretend they are something they're not in order to avoid rejection. Dating could be the same activities, but without both parties considering a long term relationship, or the use of emotional, physical intimacy to meet other needs, or to cover over our true feelings (lonliness, fear, "I'm nobody unless I have somebody"etc.) Personally, I don't really like the word "courting", but I agree with the concept behind it. So, what is your opinion?

 

[the_man]

Today at 09:13 AM DJ_1 said this in Post #2

I'm not sure what your friend doesn't believe - not ever taking a girl out?- he will not get far whether or not he is a Christian

I think the words courtship and dating mean different things to different people & it is more important to understand the concepts behind these terms. It does not necessarily mean different behavior, but different motivations for the behavior. I think of courtship as meaning spending time with/developing a relationship with/communicating with a person who you are considering as a future spouse. With courting, since both parties are considering the future/long-term implications, there is less decision making based solely on feelings/or momentary gratification. I think that this attitute helps both parties to be more honest with each other up front, rather than trying pretend they are something they're not in order to avoid rejection. Dating could be the same activities, but without both parties considering a long term relationship, or the use of emotional, physical intimacy to meet other needs, or to cover over our true feelings (lonliness, fear, "I'm nobody unless I have somebody"etc.) Personally, I don't really like the word "courting", but I agree with the concept behind it. So, what is your opinion?

Beat me to the punch DJ_1.  I agree fully, except I appreciate where the word(s) come from.  I'll just pour some gravy on what you have said. 

Courting by definition means to seek, to gain, to invite, to pursue.  In the context we use it, it means to gain relationship to pursue marriage.  This in of itself places a sense of responsibility on the relationship that mere dating lacks.  Dating by definition is a period of time, a mark of time, a fixed time,  an event.  In the context that we use it (maybe I should say should use it), it means an event of relationship for who knows how long (by definition of the word, it is implied that it is for a period of time).

Now, some would say some dating relationships can lead to marriage and courtships do not guarantee marriage.  I agree, however would you rather enter a relationship (after the friendship) with both parties knowing what the purpose is or neither party knowing what will become of the relationship?  I think I prefer the former.

 

[vibrant]

some would say dating leads to marriage and courtship does not always guarantee marriage

 shouldn't it be the opposite?

don't you court a lady before marriage, but date her (or anybody else) for whatever reason - marriage often not being the intended consequence.

 

[the_man]

Today at 05:58 PM vibrant said this in Post #4



 shouldn't it be the opposite?

don't you court a lady before marriage, but date her (or anybody else) for whatever reason - marriage often not being the intended consequence.

Hi Vibrant,

Yes, generally speaking it is the opposite.  My first paragraph said this.  That (unclear) sentence was adressing the fact that courtship doesn't always lead to marriage and dating relationships can result in marriage.  I've fixed it to be a little more clear.

 

[vibrant]

thanks for clarifying.

 

[Clytie]

Passion and Purity - What a great book! What a great author. But most of all what a great God we have. He still leads today -- yea even in relationships

 

[Hewitt]

Read the book Boy Meets Girl by Joshua Harris. That book is all about courtship! Anyway, I think it is possible, but rather unlikely to skip the whole courtship part. In the old testament, many people got married without knowing anything about their partner. However, that was quite some time ago and things have changed but it ultimately comes down to what God is leading you to do. If God says get married, you get married.

 

[Patroclus]

Courtship, historically, has nothing to do with the way we see it today.

First of all, it referred to people of nobility. Second, it was the process whereby the financial transaction of marriage was secured. It was about business, and not some notion of commitment.

With that said, I have heard a lot of people go on and on about the virutes of courting over dating. When it comes right down to it, it is about the motivation behind it. Are your life-long goals in mind or not?

 

[Bedwyr]

Courtship, historically, has nothing to do with the way we see it today.

First of all, it referred to people of nobility. Second, it was the process whereby the financial transaction of marriage was secured. It was about business, and not some notion of commitment.

With that said, I have heard a lot of people go on and on about the virutes of courting over dating. When it comes right down to it, it is about the motivation behind it. Are your life-long goals in mind or not?

True that.

I think "The Quiet Man" starring John Wayne had something close to today's concept vs dating. Would you say that's accurate (if you've seen the movie of course)?

Bedwyr

 

[psycmajor]

What's the movie "the Quiet Man" about?

 

[Alessandro]

God knows who the perfect partner is for each and everyone, and I believe and trust God.

I believe if my intention is not to marry, there is no point in starting something you cannot finish.

Engagement for me is the stage of getting to know the person that God Has for you, which then leads to marriage.

 

[Patroclus]

I have not seen the movie.

 

[psycmajor]

Dictionary.com:

court·ship ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kôrtshp, krt-)
n.
The act, process, or period of courting.
Zoology. Specialized behavior in animals that leads to or initiates mating.


Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
[Buy it]


courtship

\Court"ship\ (k?rt"sh?p), n. 1. The act of paying court, with the intent to solicit a favor. --Swift.

2. The act of wooing in love; solicitation of woman to marriage.

This method of courtship, [by which] both sides are prepared for all the matrimonial adventures that are to follow. --Goldsmith.

3. Courtliness; elegance of manners; courtesy. [Obs.]

Trim gallants, full of courtship and of state. --Shak.

4. Court policy; the character of a courtier; artifice of a court; court-craft; finesse. [Obs.]

She [the Queen] being composed of courtship and Popery. --Fuller.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


courtship

n : a man's courting of a woman; seeking the affections of a woman (usually with the hope of marriage); "its was a brief and intense courtship" [syn: wooing, courting, suit]


Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

 

[Patroclus]

That is a nice little definitions list. Of course, remember that Swift is being sarcastic.

 

[Bedwyr]

What's the movie "the Quiet Man" about?

It's about a former American boxer (Wayne) who emigrates back to Ireland and weds a fiery young lady (of course) while trying to keep parts of his past secret.

The part I was referring to was a traditional Irish betrothal where the courtship pretty much happened afterwards (with some cute scenes playing on Wayne's impatience with the culture). So if there were a sliding scale with serial-dating on one end, this would be at the far opposite end. Now that I think about it, the modern courtship concept is probably about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way towards this concept in the movie.

Bedwyr

ps- It's a '60s era chick flick. So if any classic movie with Katharine Hepburn (may she rest in peace) in it or *any* John Wayne Western makes you gag, this might not be for you.

pps- It's also loaded with Irish stereotypes. Real Dublin dwellers will either laugh or gag.

 

[psycmajor]

Holding back anything is bad. I see it like this: if you lie to me while we're courting, you're going to lie to me when we're married. Therefore I will not get serious with a person who lies to me when we're merely courting. Too few people recognize that as a sign of bad things to come.

 

[Bedwyr]

Holding back anything is bad. I see it like this: if you lie to me while we're courting, you're going to lie to me when we're married. Therefore I will not get serious with a person who lies to me when we're merely courting. Too few people recognize that as a sign of bad things to come.

Careful though. There are things I will not reveal until there is an engagement. The lack of at least that level of commitment means I will certainly be witholding certain things about myself that could be used against me. It's a harsh rule but things (especially how one's personal finances work, family history, etc) have to be kept private as a matter of safety. Of course some people don't mind sharing out all the little details of their life, but I think that's foolhardy. There are people who can take advantage of a person and do nasty things. If that upsets someone, well, I'm perfectly fine on my own. Oh, and if someone were to start demanding such personal things before that kind of commitment, that starts ringing all kinds of alarm bells in my head.

Bedwyr

 

[psycmajor]

Bedwyr

Oh. I think we have a misunderstanding. I wouldn't expect someone to give me all their bank info and stuff like that if I've only known them for a short while.

What I mean is that I don't think people should be anything less than their genuine selves. Don't say you're a virgin if you slept with 10 women. Don't say that you're okay with me as a person, but then try to change me.

My point is, don't withold any information about yourself that seems damning just to nab me. Do not portray a false image out of your own selfishness.

 

[IslandBreeze]

Read the book Boy Meets Girl by Joshua Harris. That book is all about courtship! Anyway, I think it is possible, but rather unlikely to skip the whole courtship part. In the old testament, many people got married without knowing anything about their partner. However, that was quite some time ago and things have changed but it ultimately comes down to what God is leading you to do. If God says get married, you get married.

Josh Harris is a hypocrite in every sense of the word. Don't waste your time or money on his books or his false message. I don't believe in courtship. I believe that God will (if you let Him), lead you to the perfect man or woman for you. When you meet that person, there won't be a question about your life together as husband and wife--you'll just know. And you won't have to question if you should date, or court or anything. Everything will fall into place. I used to date. Then I let God direct me to my husband. His timing is perfect and wonderful, and He has some great men and women out there! I should know! I was lead to one of them!