Do you agree with this statement?

[James Is Back]

Because of Eve's disobedience all men died. Because of Mary's obedience, all men live. Who is more worthy of a title?

Only God gets the glory not Mary not you not me only God because He is the author of all things.

Giving glory to someone other than God is in my book idolatry.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Only God gets the glory not Mary not you not me only God because He is the author of all things.

Giving glory to someone other than God is in my book idolatry.

In everything God alone has the glory yet God in his grace shares his glory with his people. That is what Jesus said when he talked with the apostles in the closing chapters of the gospel of saint John. The Lord said, "The glory that you gave to me I have given to them" (John 17:22) he speaks of the glory he received as the Son of Man from the Father and which he has given to the faithful. Of course God is always the source of the glory and all praise ultimately is given to him even when it is given through praises of the things (and the people) he has made.

 

[James Is Back]

In everything God alone has the glory yet God in his grace shares his glory with his people. That is what Jesus said when he talked with the apostles in the closing chapters of the gospel of saint John. The Lord said, "The glory that you gave to me I have given to them" (John 17:22) he speaks of the glory he received as the Son of Man from the Father and which he has given to the faithful. Of course God is always the source of the glory and all praise ultimately is given to him even when it is given through praises of the things (and the people) he has made.

But doesn't that contradict Isaiah 42:8

"I am the Lord; that is my name;
my glory I give to no other,
nor my praise to carved idols."

 

[MoreCoffee]

But doesn't that contradict Isaiah 42:8

"I am the Lord; that is my name;
my glory I give to no other,
nor my praise to carved idols."

I do not think that it does because the uncreated glory of God is not what is shared with the faithful but rather the created glory that Jesus Christ received from the Father as the Christ (messiah) who is to rule the world. We are creatures and always will be, even though we will share in the divine nature through our union with Jesus Christ we will not cease being created beings who depend on God for life and breath and all things but we will be like Christ in his resurrection and that is a glory in itself.

 

[James Is Back]

I do not think that it does because the uncreated glory of God is not what is shared with the faithful but rather the created glory that Jesus Christ received from the Father as the Christ (messiah) who is to rule the world. We are creatures and always will be, even though we will share in the divine nature through our union with Jesus Christ we will not cease being created beings who depend on God for life and breath and all things but we will be like Christ in his resurrection and that is a glory in itself.

Interesting you mind if I start a topic on this to get a better viewpoint from others so we don't derail the thread?

 

[Knee V]

I will quote once more:




Doesn't that statement "scare" you, even a little bit?

Because of God, all men live.
Because of Jesus Christ obedience, all men live.

Because of Mary's obedience, all men live.

Something about that doesn't seem right to me. I mean, why give that kind of glory to a mere servant when all glory should go to God alone?

"What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building." 1 Corinthians 3:5-9

No, it doesn't scare me. Not that theological positions scare me, but what "scares" me is the position touted by many who reduce people and their actions to mere illusions or puppetry, as if nothing we do matters nor is truly real in any meaningful sense.

You and I, and every other person, are real persons; we are not illusions; we are not robots; we are not tools; we are not play things. Our actions are real. History truly happened, and continues to happen. Our actions and choices impact things outside of ourselves in a truly real way.

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do his good pleasure."

Who is working? God? Me? The answer is "yes." Just because a person made a choice which impacted billions of people doesn't mean that that somehow diminishes God's role.

It is not my theology which allows God to be limited by human actions, if that really is what everyone is so worried about.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Interesting you mind if I start a topic on this to get a better viewpoint from others so we don't derail the thread?

I think this is on topic! Mary is, after all, a creature like you and me so the glory she received is like the glory we shall receive (though hers may be more glorious because of who she is and what she did).

 

[Knee V]

Only God gets the glory not Mary not you not me only God because He is the author of all things.

Giving glory to someone other than God is in my book idolatry.

So you're telling me that God is a self-absorbed narcissist who needs everyone to give Him pats on the back for all eternity? I don't know that God.

 

[Knee V]

But doesn't that contradict Isaiah 42:8

"I am the Lord; that is my name;
my glory I give to no other,
nor my praise to carved idols."

Our knowledge of God starts with Christ on the cross, not with what we think the pages of Scripture mean. The God of the cross cares nothing for His own image and well-being. So whatever we think that passage in Isaiah means, it is not what you are saying it means.

 

[x141]

But doesn't that contradict Isaiah 42:8

"I am the Lord; that is my name;
my glory I give to no other,
nor my praise to carved idols."

We are not another, unless you believe you are not one with him.

 

[Lion King]

No, it doesn't scare me. Not that theological positions scare me, but what "scares" me is the position touted by many who reduce people and their actions to mere illusions or puppetry, as if nothing we do matters nor is truly real in any meaningful sense.

You and I, and every other person, are real persons; we are not illusions; we are not robots; we are not tools; we are not play things. Our actions are real. History truly happened, and continues to happen. Our actions and choices impact things outside of ourselves in a truly real way.

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do his good pleasure."

Who is working? God? Me? The answer is "yes." Just because a person made a choice which impacted billions of people doesn't mean that that somehow diminishes God's role.

It is not my theology which allows God to be limited by human actions, if that really is what everyone is so worried about.

Unfortunately, you are far too down the rabbit hole if you see nothing wrong with what your colleague said earlier.

Mary's obedience saved absolutely no one, but herself.
I don't live because Mary obeyed God.
You do not live because Mary obeyed God.

God alone is the author and finisher of our salvation! Only by Christ's obedience to His Father do we live!

Who is Abraham? Who is Mary? Only servants through who we came to believe- as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

Looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

 

[Lion King]

Our knowledge of God starts with Christ on the cross, not with what we think the pages of Scripture mean. The God of the cross cares nothing for His own image and well-being. So whatever we think that passage in Isaiah means, it is not what you are saying it means.

What do you think Isaiah meant by that statement?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I must disagree.
Without Jesus there would be no Virgin Mary. The necessary one is not the Virgin Mary but Jesus. To say otherwise is somewhat akin, though not analogous, to saying "Without humans there would be no God." Which , of course is the position taken by atheists.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I must disagree.
Without Jesus there would be no Virgin Mary. The necessary one is not the Virgin Mary but Jesus. To say otherwise is somewhat akin, though not analogous, to saying "Without humans there would be no God." Which , of course is the position taken by atheists.

Except that the observation about Mary is an observation about what God did, really did, in history while the hypothetical you posed is not about what God did since clearly God did create human beings. It might be better to reason that because God created human beings we know that God is.

 

[x141]

Except that the observation about Mary is an observation about what God did, really did, in history while the hypothetical you posed is not about what God did since clearly God did create human beings. It might be better to reason that because God created human beings we know that God is.

It would be better to say God revealed himself, so we know that he is, which Jesus attested to, and made relevant to everyone as the path of life that was hidden in them.

 

[James Is Back]

So you're telling me that God is a self-absorbed narcissist who needs everyone to give Him pats on the back for all eternity? I don't know that God.

So you're telling me that God shouldn't get all the Glory that he's done here on earth?

 

[Knee V]

So you're telling me that God shouldn't get all the Glory that he's done here on earth?

God can do what he wishes with his glory, and that is his own prerogative. But he is the God who humbles himself, denies himself, and pours himself out for others. That is the God we know who showed us himself on the cross. And as that is who he is, he shares his glory with people, allowing us to become partakers of and sharers in it.

 

[Knee V]

What do you think Isaiah meant by that statement?

In Isaiah God says, "I will share my glory with no one." Yet we know from the New Testament that the end result of our salvation is that God will glorify us. Which is it? Will God hold his glory all to himself as we seem to see in Isaiah, or will he bestow it on us as we see in Romans and elsewhere?

But the context of that phrase shows what it is really talking about. The very next clause says, "nor my praise to carved idols." In other words, this part in Isaiah 42 is about false gods; God will not share his glory *with idols*. He will, however, share his glory with his people.

 

[Rick Otto]

"Without the Virgin Mary, there would be no Jesus Christ. Without the Virgin Mary there would be no Mother Church."

Yes or No?

No, if you mean it could've been "The Virgin Betty".

Gotta have that virgin mother as per Genesis.

 

[BobRyan]

In Isaiah God says, "I will share my glory with no one." Yet we know from the New Testament that the end result of our salvation is that God will glorify us. .

Well find the "God will claim that on earth we were sinless like Christ, co-redeemers with Christ, and in heaven all-powerful like Christ" or that "no man comes to Christ but through you" etc.

in Christ,

Bob