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No, it was definitely Jesus. It was one of my lessons, I just can't remember which or I'd look it up.Karl - Liberal Backslider said:Bushido - I think that was Aslan rather than Jesus.
Nicene Creed
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
Amen.
Faith without works is dead...Markh said:who created the statement of faith on the first page? I mean I have issues with 6 as Faith alone won't get you into heaven, good deeds are required too.
Right, but ej, if you look carefully at what Markh said, he was saying that you needed both faith and works. Which is what you are saying. If you yell "I have faith, I am saved" but your works don't demonstrate that faith, then you don't have the faith. #6 doesn't acknowledge works at all. It says that faith alone without any works (what you call dead faith) is enough.ej said:Faith without works is dead...
but...
It is by faith we are saved. So works without faith won't save you either.
In a nutshell
I think it was an admission that it didn't matter. In the 4th century, most Christians were Biblical literalists and took Genesis 1 and 2 literally. But they didn't put it into the Creed because they were smart enough to know that the really essential thing was that God created. It was not important at all how God created. They were better logicians than modern day creationists and knew better than to tie belief in God to a particular how that God created.ej said:My (amateur) view is that the Nicene Creed from 4thC AD leaves such issues open - almost an admission that we do not (yet) know the answer. eg- it states that 'through Him, all things were made', but it doesn't go into detail of HOW they were made. Because we don't know.
There are other conclusions. One would be that they think that they can "prove" the existence of God by "proving" a particular method of creation. So you tie an unprovable statement -- God exists -- to a very testable (and provable) statement on how God created -- Creation Science. The problem arises, of course, when the testing disproves your "proof". Now, because you have tied the two together, your untestable statement is also disproved.Now... why would a sect of Christians change this statement of faith? The obvious conclusion is that they think they do know the answer. Why? Beats me.
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