Do you agree with this quote from Waking Life?

[Mysticus]

Now I didn't say the US was perfect. Those objections you noted could be said of even the most forward thinking nations in the world. The basis of my point was that presumably if we follow Nietzsche's advice and find this primal ethic, would it not necessitate a radical removal of the current social systems in favor of better ones? And this has never worked before. Even if such a revolution would be needed to overhaul the lives of millions and make them better, it wouldn't do to start such a thing in one of the top nations when it comes to freedoms, such as the US.

Actually, Nietzsche's point is that for a person to be the best one can be, requires not only knowing one's self but thinking for one's self. Doing so makes the likes of bombardment by medial imagery and suggestions less effective. Which over time may hopefully better society for generations to come, and in effect lessen our consume-it-and-throw-it-away habit's that are not only extremely altering the environment in and around the US but is doing so throughout the biome of the whole planet.

 

[LostFound1986]

To come back to the main issue of the thread, I find it very distasteful to degrade most people to some lower level than some influential philosophers. I'm surprised there are not more people who oppose this ridiculous idea.

 

[Mysticus]

To come back to the main issue of the thread, I find it very distasteful to degrade most people to some lower level than some influential philosophers. I'm surprised there are not more people who oppose this ridiculous idea.

I personally was not degrading any human being in comparison to some influential philosophers. I would go as far to say that most philosophers in which I would consider to be respectable wouldn't either.

 

[LostFound1986]

Yes I know, I was just repeating the content of my main response. The topic got a bit derailed after some poster starting asking me if I was a feminist or something...

 

[JSynon]

To come back to the main issue of the thread, I find it very distasteful to degrade most people to some lower level than some influential philosophers. I'm surprised there are not more people who oppose this ridiculous idea.

Dang, this kid wishes he was Plato.

Lol, jk.

 

[The Nihilist]

Dang, this kid wishes he was Plato.

Lol, jk.

He's giving such women's studies answers.

 

[Eudaimonist]

To come back to the main issue of the thread, I find it very distasteful to degrade most people to some lower level than some influential philosophers. I'm surprised there are not more people who oppose this ridiculous idea.

Well, I do. Sort of. I don't think that everyone has a genius for philosophy, and neither capitalism nor socialism can possibly turn everyone into a Great Philosopher to stand up to the likes of Plato or Nietszche.

However, even non-geniuses can be philosophical. Virtually everyone wonders what meaning their lives have or should have. Virtually everyone wonders how they should live their lives. The idea that non-Philosophers are unphilosophical is elitist, self-congratulatory nonsense.

I'm also with you that the historical freedoms of the U.S. have done more to unlock personal potential than bottle them up. I'm not happy with recent political movements, such as the Bush family and the neocons, but they are basically pseudo-fascist anti-freedom movements, and don't represent what America really is and has accomplished.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[LostFound1986]

Lol, recoveringphilosopher wouldn't get very far debating in a proper academic institution.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

No he would, he just has a very sarcastic, and original sense of humor. I dont know about you but i laugh when i read it to a certain extent.

 

[Sojourner<><]

I no longer believe in intelligence, just varying degrees of insanity - chimps being the saner lot of the bunch.

 

[hybrid]

I no longer believe in intelligence, just varying degrees of insanity - chimps being the saner lot of the bunch.

and with the human's present state of affairs....
i am not sure if the chimps can be proud to call us cousins!!!

 

[SonicBOOM]

Plato would agree with you, and Nietzsche would slap you and call you a fool and yell that you haven't understood anything that he has said.
According to him, the thinking life is for the weak who have been unable to find satisfaction through strength. So, they invent another realm of meaning and ideas and all that nonsense, and they call that the superior world, and in that way they draw satisfaction. I am inclined to agree. Put down your books. Go play outside. Fight. Fornicate.

well this is definitely alot easier and often times a workable method for some people.... though most people who have really screwed up their lives are known to have taken this path. Forget the Conservative Christians... talk to a recovering drug-addict instead! If we are to just live our lives without some sense, than it won't be long before we crawl back, tail between our legs and mud on our clothes. It's great you think it's proper to "fight and fornicate" but this is a very popular answer and will no doubt earn you popular vote. But those who have learned the dark and twisted deceptions of this road will no doubt say that you are a coward and a fool to teach people stuff like this. If we just do whatever we want we will end up alone, if we fight to get whatever we want we will end up dead, and if we have sex whenever the urge seizes us than we will end up with AIDS. Wisdom is important and essential to our survival. To tell someone to "just live" is like telling someone to walk into a jungle without a map.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Wisdom is important and essential to our survival. To tell someone to "just live" is like telling someone to walk into a jungle without a map.

This quote should be framed and put up on a wall.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[funyun]

You are born free, then you become a citizen.

One of the cases where Locke > Nietzsche. I liked him, but his individualism, like with Rand, bordered on sociopathy at times. A perception, you are demonstrating, not entirely unfounded.

 

[funyun]

He's giving such women's studies answers.

One trick pony? You I mean, not him.

 

[Mysticus]

One of the cases where Locke > Nietzsche. I liked him, but his individualism, like with Rand, bordered on sociopathy at times. A perception, you are demonstrating, not entirely unfounded.

Let me guess, you believe a government gives you freedom.

 

[funyun]

Let me guess, you believe a government gives you freedom.

How typically simple.

You are born with the right, not the privilege, to be free. But until ideas like the social contract and rule by the people for the people came about, there were kings and aristocracies who saw to it that you were exploited and subjugated from the day you were born. I don't call that freedom. I think my 15 year old self would argue on your side against myself today, but that was a phase I grew out of. Not all institutions are made equally, and I've learned the difference between victimization and simply having a victim complex, which I don't mind openly admitting I believe is the central foundation of Randianism and other like-minded philosophies.

 

[nadroj1985]

well this is definitely alot easier and often times a workable method for some people.... though most people who have really screwed up their lives are known to have taken this path. Forget the Conservative Christians... talk to a recovering drug-addict instead! If we are to just live our lives without some sense, than it won't be long before we crawl back, tail between our legs and mud on our clothes. It's great you think it's proper to "fight and fornicate" but this is a very popular answer and will no doubt earn you popular vote. But those who have learned the dark and twisted deceptions of this road will no doubt say that you are a coward and a fool to teach people stuff like this. If we just do whatever we want we will end up alone, if we fight to get whatever we want we will end up dead, and if we have sex whenever the urge seizes us than we will end up with AIDS. Wisdom is important and essential to our survival. To tell someone to "just live" is like telling someone to walk into a jungle without a map.

I agree with pretty much all of this, and I think Nietzsche would, too. Don't worry about this nonsense that Nietzsche merely told us to fight and fornicate. Nietzsche's power is more often than not in the mind rather than the muscles, and Nietzsche would never advocate an easy life.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I've learned the difference between victimization and simply having a victim complex

And that is?

And how does this apply to philosophy, and not merely psychology?

And how is this judgment, when applied to philosophy, not mere psychologizing?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[The Nihilist]

One trick pony? You I mean, not him.

My pony can do many tricks; consult your mother.