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Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

Do you agree or disagree?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 42.9%
  • No

    Votes: 12 57.1%

  • Total voters
    21

amariselle

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Of course, much in the way a Tom Clancy novel might get certain facts right in a Jack Ryan novel.

Actually these sources are from people who have devoted their entire lives to studying the history and authenticity of the Biblical manuscripts, ancient Hebrew and Greek etc.

I've looked into it a bit myself, in college and more recently, but I freely admit I am no Biblical scholar. I am inspired now though, to look again. I will do so tomorrow and perhaps start a new thread on the topic.
 
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HitchSlap

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Are you aware of the fact there is zero contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus?
 
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amariselle

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Are you aware of the fact there is zero contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus?

What exactly do you mean by that? That no new Biblical texts are being written?
 
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HitchSlap

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What exactly do you mean by that? That no new Biblical texts are being written?
No, contemporary source means any form of evidence during the actual lifetime of Jesus. And the earliest documents we have were written decades after his death. And the actual physical copies of of these sources were copied decades after this.
 
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rjs330

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The very fact that we have enough manuscripts to verify the scriptures you quote is evidence of the veracity of the bible. Just because the KJV is off on a few verses does not invalidate the original texts. We have some pretty accurate translations now including interliniary Greek English bibles. So your slam is against a certain English translation not against the original text.

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amariselle

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No, contemporary source means any form of evidence during the actual lifetime of Jesus. And the earliest documents we have were written decades after his death. And the actual physical copies of of these sources were copied decades after this.

Yes, but the original texts were written by His contemporaries. And amazingly there is very little variation that has occurred over the centuries, and none of the variations deal with crucial texts. (Like those concerning the Deity of Jesus and His resurrection for instance].
 
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HitchSlap

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I disagree, there's actually very little to "verify" scriptures. Perhaps you're referring to the amount of copies of copies that exist? We don't have the originals, any of them.
 
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HitchSlap

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Not true. The gospels were written in Greek, a language Jesus never spoke, in countries Jesus never visited, decades after his death. The authors are anonymous, and certainly never met/knew Jesus. Matthew and Luke copy heavily from Mark, and John is written in a style so different, that it almost wasn't included in the bible. The gospels are replete with factual errors, incongruent timelines and interpolations. And the deity of Jesus was debated for the next century after his death.
 
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rjs330

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None of us claim wild jumps. We just claim it's impossible for one thing to turn into something else no matter how long evolution had to work. There is no proof that it can happen.

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HitchSlap

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None of us claim wild jumps. We just claim it's impossible for one thing to turn into something else no matter how long evolution had to work. There is no proof that it can happen.

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Your claim is wrong.
 
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amariselle

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I don't know what sources you are looking at, but the the study of Biblical texts is a massive field, and they have cohesively demonstrated quite the opposite. However, I will start another thread on this tomorrow. I don't have time to look into it again right now.
 
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HitchSlap

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What language were the gospels written in?
 
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amariselle

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What language were the gospels written in?

You do understand the huge Hellenistic influence of that time period right? There were many in the area that spoke and wrote Greek. That disproves absolutely nothing.
 
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HitchSlap

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Actually your claim is wrong and you have no proof its right.

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I'm really not interested in your opinion.
I'm swayed by evidence, not incredulity. You have none of the former, and too much of the latter.
 
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rjs330

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I get it. You don't think the bible is true. You don't really doubt the manuscripts themselves you doubt the truth within those manuscripts and accuracy of actual history of them. You may believe that they were written, but you think its a fable.

You are entitled to that. And I do not have the ability to convince you otherwise. That is between you and God. All I can tell you is what I believe and why I believe it. What happens after that is out of my hands.

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HitchSlap

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You do understand the huge Hellenistic influence of that time period right? There were many in the area that spoke and wrote Greek. That disproves absolutely nothing.
It's estimated that literacy was probably about 10% for a Jew in Palestine during this time period, and they most assuredly would not have spoke Greek, much less write in Greek.
Additionally, the style of Greek used in the gospels is a style used much later after Jesus' death. The gospels are written in third person narrative, and the authors are anonymous.
 
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HitchSlap

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I'm influenced by evidence. There is no other reasonable way to determine reality.

I'm really not interested in one's personal beliefs, but only what you can support with objective evidence.
 
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amariselle

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Many people dictated what they wanted written to those who could read. Paul also did this. Also, as we don't have the original documents, and as they were copied over time, the style of Greek may have changed, but the message remained the same. Similarly to how the KJV is different English than more recent translations, but the message remains intact and accurate.
 
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HitchSlap

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There's no way to know if the copies accurately conveys the originals, since, as you ponted out, we don't have them. In fact, quite the opposite is true. We have plenty of examples in which we have one copy delbrately changed to the next copy. This was such a common practice, in fact, that the writer of Revelation admonishes anyone who would change the "prophecy."
 
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