So you are claiming that the Atonement was not complete?Your illustration is inaccurate. A mortgage requires both a down payment AND subsequent monthly payments in order to be fully paid off. Jesus' atonement was the down payment. Our works of righteousness not done in our own strength and/or flesh, but rather out of obedience to the Word and Spirit constitute our obligatory payments.
Eph 1:14-16 states: "The Holy Spirit is the down payment on our inheritance, which is applied toward our redemption as God’s own people, resulting in the honor of God’s glory." (CEB)
Your citation of the Romans passages refer to works of the law which of course have no merit in one's salvation. This is the polar opposite of works of righteousness which we were created to do in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:10). You must be careful to distinguish between the two.
Hi Steve (re-post),So, does that mean that grace has "strings attached"? It's not really free?
So, you are claiming that the Atonement is not complete?Hi Steve,
Are you saying that grace is a free license to sin and that OBEDIENCE to God's law as the fruit of faith does not matter? God's Grace is given us so that we can follow him by faith.
ROMANS 1:5 By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE to the faith among all nations, for his name.
ROAMNS 2:12-13
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
ROMANS 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
ROMANS 6:1-2
[1], What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2], God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer in it?
God's GRACE is for OBEDIENCE to the faith *ROMANS 1:5. It is not a license to sin. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW is him and is the NEW COVENANT promise *ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12. Salvation is from sin not in sin *JOHN 8:31-36.
If any continue in sin they will die because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27
May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.
Must a person continue to profess Jesus as Lord until the end of his life?If you got a notice from your bank declaring that your mortgage was now paid in full, would you continue to make monthly house payments on the loan? Of course not.
Yet this is how some treat the Atonement of Christ.
The price for our reconciliation has been paid in full, but they continue to pay and pay. Thinking that somehow they still owe on their debt. Thus declaring the Atonement for sin to be somehow incomplete.
Do "works of righteousness" declare the Atonement to be incomplete?
Consider this scripture. (comments below)
Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
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This scripture describes the one who understands that the Atonement is complete. The one who puts their trust in God, who justifies the ungodly. Their faith is credited as righteousness. To the one who does not work. (but trusts God)
The passage goes on to say this.
Romans 4:6-8
David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
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Check out the context of this well known scripture. (posted below)
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
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Romans 3:21-26
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
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We are justified freely by his grace. This does not initiate a payment plan. It's a done deal. Paid in full. Yet some continue to pay. As if it is all on them now. Give it a rest.
Matthew 11:28-29
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Is the atonement for those who continue to knowingly break God's Commandments or for those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD?So, you are claiming that the Atonement is not complete?
That's a good question. Here are more.Must a person continue to profess Jesus as Lord until the end of his life?
That doesn't make any sense.Not for those who continue to knowingly break God's Commandments. They may have a form of Godliness but they deny God's power to save them from their sins *2 TIMOTHY 3:5
These may say they know God but God's WORD says they do not and their faith is dead *1 JOHN 3:6; JAMES 2:18-20.
1 JOHN 2:3-4
[3] And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
It is only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD that the atonement is for.
Hope this helps
That's a good question. Here are more.
- Can a person who has never professed Jesus as Lord be saved?
- Are we saved at the moment we profess Jesus as Lord?
- Do we lose our salvation if we deny Jesus as Lord? (like the Apostle Peter)
- Does our salvation depend on our profession of Jesus as Lord?
Is "professing Jesus as Lord until the end of life" a work that you are adding to the Atonement because you think it is not complete?
A confession of faith in Christ is how we receive the Atonement, not a condition for keeping it. IMHO
That doesn't make any sense.
Nothing we can do will make the Atonement incomplete. It is complete in itself.
Are you claiming that we can undo what Christ has done?
The decision about reprobation is completely in God's hands. There is nothing we can do to undo what God through Jesus Christ has already done for us.Steve what about this question...
Is a person who professes Jesus but CONTINUES in a LIFE of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN in a SAVED STATE before GOD or an UNSAVED state before God? *HEBREWS 10:26-27 (Scripture please)
Something to think about for us all.
The decision about reprobation is completely in God's hands. There is nothing we can do to undo what God through Jesus Christ has already done for us.
Something for us all to think about.
You asked me about "a person who professes Jesus but CONTINUES in a LIFE of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN in a SAVED STATE before GOD"Who said that there is anything that we can do? Not me.
1 Corinthians 2:14This does not make any sense and does not aswer the question provided to you (scripture?).
1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
By adding a condition you are claiming that the Atonement is not complete. (emphasis mine)This does not make any sense and does not answer the question provided to you (scripture?). Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD'S WORD are his people and these are who the atonement is for. The atonement is not for those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.
Steve your only making things up now to avoid answering the question asked of you. If you do not want to answer the question just say so. Maybe you can pray about it at home?By adding a condition you are claiming that the Atonement is not complete. (emphasis mine)
I am not required to answer your questions in the same way you are unable to understand my answers.And this answers the question asked of you how?
Now isnt that easier. If you did not want to answer the question just say so. It was only sent as a help to the discussion. If you cannot answer it than maybe you need to pray about it and consider it further in your own time at home. Nice talking to you Steve.I am not required to answer your questions in the same way you are unable to understand my answers.
You claimed that following "God's WORD" (code for SDA rules) is a condition of the Atonement.Steve your only making things up now to avoid answering the question asked of you. If you do not want to answer the question just say so. Maybe you can pray about it at home?
No thank you. I have no interest in adhering to your beliefs.Now isnt that easier. If you did not want to answer the question just say so. It was only sent as a help to the discussion. If you cannot answer it then maybe you need to pray about it and consider it further in your own time at home.
May God help you as you seek him through his WORD.
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