Do "works" matter?

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by lambslove
Sorry. Can't agree with that.

We are saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ.

Titus 3:4-5
"But when the love of God appeared through our Lord Jesus Christ, He saved us, not because of the good deeds we had done, but because of His mercy."

That settles it for me.

It's not salvation through impressive acts of good works, it is salvation through God's love, our faith in Christ and God's mercy.

What? You just admitted that faith and works must go together. And now you don't even mention works, just faith?

 

[ZiSunka]

We are rewarded for our works, not saved because of them.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by lambslove
We are rewarded for our works, not saved because of them.

Then why did you say this:

In other words, God takes away the things that we did for the wrong reasons, and looks at what is left, the things we did for the right reasons, and determines from that how much we loved him in life.

You were saying that we are rewarded for works?

Then why did you say that works are evidence of our faith? Now you are separating them?

 

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Exactly, you are a wise kid.

Thanks. (only by grace though)

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Kirisutokyoo-shinja
Thanks. (only by grace though)

Right.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Then why did you say this:



You were saying that we are rewarded for works?

Then why did you say that works are evidence of our faith? Now you are separating them?

Salvation is not your reward for doing enough good deeds. It is a gift from God.

If you can EARN your salvation by doing good deeds, why did Christ die on the cross? The cross would be worthless if we could save ourselves by doing good deeds!

Good deeds lead to heavenly rewards, not eternal life.

For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. Matthew 16:27

 

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

Originally posted by lambslove
Salvation is not your reward for doing enough good deeds. It is a gift from God.

If you can EARN your salvation by doing good deeds, why did Christ die on the cross? The cross would be worthless if we could save ourselves by doing good deeds!

Good deeds lead to heavenly rewards, not eternal life.

I agree.  It is my understanding that even those who are not saved can be blessed because of good deeds (this doesn't get them into heaven).  And you know the scripture about how if you help Israel you will be blessed? I don't think that only applies to christians, because surprisingly enough many "unsaved" people do "good works" such as helping tortured Jews fly from Russia to Israel to escape prosecusion.

They are helping the Jews so therefore they are in right standings for that blessing.

 

[ZiSunka]

And there is a Catholic tradition that unsaved people who do good works will be placed in a better situation in hell and will do less suffering than those who don't do good works.

Now, I'm no catholic, and I don't know where this idea comes from, but I've heard it more than once from many, many Catholics.

I think it might come from here:

And whoever gives just a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is a disciple -- I assure you: He will never lose his reward!" Matthew 10:42

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

If you can EARN your salvation by doing good deeds, why did Christ die on the cross?

To allow us the opportunity to work out our salvations. Without that, we wouldnt be redeemed, we wouldnt be back to the Adam/Eve state.

The cross would be worthless if we could save ourselves by doing good deeds!

We couldnt save ourselves without someone taking our place. Now that we are redeemed, we have a responsibility to participate in our salvations.

You agreed that we must love God enough to get into Heaven, didnt you? Either we have something to do with our salvations or we don't, which is it?

The Bible says that your faith alone cant save you, does it not?

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by s0uljah
To allow us the opportunity to work out our salvations. Without that, we wouldnt be redeemed, we wouldnt be back to the Adam/Eve state.

Huh!

You agreed that we must love God enough to get into Heaven, didnt you? Either we have something to do with our salvations or we don't, which is it?

I never said we don't have to do anything. We just don't save ourselves by doing good deeds to impress God. God is not so easy to impress!

We must accept God's offer of relationship, we must accept that Christ has the only authority to pay the price for our sins, we must be humble enough to admit that we can't save ourselves.

These are the things we must do to be saved.

 

[ZiSunka]

The Bible says that your faith alone cant save you, does it not?

No, it doesn't. It says that our faith is demonstrated by our works, but not that we are saved by works in any way.

 

[Jephunneh]

When I got saved I was justified in God's sight.....(Romans 5:1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
.....And a good work has been done in me....(Philippians 1:6) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

What happen to you when you were saved?



Notice that no one goes to Hell at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Some people lose rewards, but they are still SAVED.

1 Corinthians 3
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


We are to YIELD our bodies to Him (Rom. 12:1-2).
We are to DENY OURSELVES and be HIS disciples (Luke 9:23).
So the Judgment Seat of Christ will TRY us and determine whether or not we have done our duty.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

The Bible says that your faith alone cant save you, does it not?

Originally posted by lambslove
No, it doesn't. It says that our faith is demonstrated by our works, but not that we are saved by works in any way.

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

"‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 7:21).

Even the demons know Jesus is Lord, and they shudder, as the Bible says. Faith alone can't save you. How can you deny this!?

 

[Jephunneh]

Do you do "works" out of love for what The Lord Jesus Christ has done for you or because of fear of "losing it"?

 

[Messenger]

Originally posted by lambslove
No, it doesn't. It says that our faith is demonstrated by our works, but not that we are saved by works in any way.

Uuuh....wrong answer.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed- not only in my presence, but not much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Do everything without complaining or arguing so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

Love and God Bless.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by s0uljah
The Bible says that your faith alone cant save you, does it not?



"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

"‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 7:21).

Even the demons know Jesus is Lord, and they shudder, as the Bible says. Faith alone can't save you. How can you deny this!?

What's the next verse after than souljah?

"Faith without works is dead...I'll show you my faith through works."

So, just saying you have faith but not following through with actions shows that your faith is dead. Dead faith can't save anyone. You demonstrate your faith through your works, but you are NOT saved by works.

And not everyone who calls Jesus Lord has any faith in him at all, or not saving faith anyway. Read my thread on faith in the devotions forum and you'll see what saving faith really is. It's not just saying the name of the Lord.

The demons KNOW God but they DO NOT have saving faith in him. To have a saving faith, they would have to turn away from their evil deeds and do good, good that shows a living, saving faith in God.

Surely you must see the difference between saying God's name and knowing him as your savior. Anyone can say, "Jesus Christ" as a swear word, or as a meaningless mantra, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to salvation. Anyone can believe in Christ, but unless they are willing to submit themselves to him in faith, it means nothing.

 

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

Originally posted by s0uljah
The Bible says that your faith alone cant save you, does it not?



"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

"‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 7:21).

Even the demons know Jesus is Lord, and they shudder, as the Bible says. Faith alone can't save you. How can you deny this!?

Yes...even demons and The devil himself "have religion" if one chooses to define it as "believing that God exist".  They even have "faith" that God exist!  But that still does not save them.  And good works for them...that is out of the question.  And think of the anti-christ, he is supposed to come in the manner of peace and unity and mess right?  His works will "look" good even though they are not, he will try to be the antithesis of christ while "appearing" holy.  His works will not compliment his "faith" in God.  But his belief in God still differs from ours, he has lied so much he believes his own lies.  He KNOWS beyond a shadow of a doubt and should know more than any human alive that God IS, God, he "IS" when the Devil fell from heaven, he "IS" now, and he "IS" forever more. There is no doubt that he believes, but he does not believe that God is the Greatest, he thinks he can win. (well...I'm off topic again) Basically, the devil believes....but his work doesn't exemplify God.

Faith alone cannot save.

 

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

Originally posted by lambslove
What's the next verse after than souljah?

"Faith without works is dead...I'll show you my faith through works."

So, just saying you have faith but not following through with actions shows that your faith is dead. Dead faith can't save anyone. You demonstrate your faith through your works, but you are NOT saved by works.

And not everyone who calls Jesus Lord has any faith in him at all, or not saving faith anyway. Read my thread on faith in the devotions forum and you'll see what saving faith really is. It's not just saying the name of the Lord.

The demons KNOW God but they DO NOT have saving faith in him. To have a saving faith, they would have to turn away from their evil deeds and do good, good that shows a living, saving faith in God.

Surely you must see the difference between saying God's name and knowing him as your savior. Anyone can say, "Jesus Christ" as a swear word, or as a meaningless mantra, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to salvation. Anyone can believe in Christ, but unless they are willing to submit themselves to him in faith, it means nothing.

"Faith without works is dead...I'll show you my faith through works."
Right, and it is impossible to please God without "faith", and if one's faith is "dead" then it is the same as "inactive" and essentially "non existent"

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Messenger
Uuuh....wrong answer.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed- not only in my presence, but not much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Do everything without complaining or arguing so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

Love and God Bless.

I can't tell you how many people mistakenly think this means they have to do works to get saved.

Dearest friends, you were always so careful to follow my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away you must be even more careful to put into action God's saving work in your lives, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. NLT.

It is saying the same thing:
Actions show your salvation. Actions are fruits of your salvation. Works are the demonstration of your faith in God.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Actions show your salvation. Actions are fruits of your salvation. Works are the demonstration of your faith in God.

You make it seem like they are automatic. That isnt what Jesus or the Apostles said.

Anyone can say, "Jesus Christ" as a swear word, or as a meaningless mantra, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to salvation. Anyone can believe in Christ, but unless they are willing to submit themselves to him in faith, it means nothing.

Oh my, this isnt at all what Jesus said. He didnt talk about people saying His name in vain, He talked about people that claimed to do His bidding, but didn't really.

Do you need the verse?

For every tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not pick figs from thornbushes, nor do they gather grapes from brambles.
A good person out of the store of goodness in his heart produces good, but an evil person out of a store of evil produces evil; for from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks.
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I command?
I will show you what someone is like who comes to me, listens to my words, and acts on them.
That one is like a person building a house, who dug deeply and laid the foundation on rock; when the flood came, the river burst against that house but could not shake it because it had been well built.
But the one who listens and does not act is like a person who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the river burst against it, it collapsed at once and was completely destroyed."