Do we receive the Holy Ghost Baptism at conversion?

[joevberry3]

There is a debate now on rather or not we receive the Baptism at Salvation. I say we DONT receive the Baptism at Conversion, but later. Atleast thats how it happened for me and MOST of the people I know that has the Baptism.
Can you share your thoughts and scripture?

God Bless,
Joe

www.arkwebshost.com/biblestudies/joevberry3/

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

There is a debate now on rather or not we receive the Baptism at Salvation. I say we DONT receive the Baptism at Conversion, but later. Atleast thats how it happened for me and MOST of the people I know that has the Baptism.
Can you share your thoughts and scripture?

God Bless,
Joe

I've seen it both ways joe. I believe the Baptism of Holy Ghost is available on conversion, however many churches are most concerned with Salvation and they don't give the convert the rest of the story until later. I believe it does not have to wait until later. It frequently does, but it does not have to.

In Acts 19:1-6 Paul asks the believers at Ephesus "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" There seems to have been the assumption they should/could have. They replied "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit". Since they had not been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, Paul baptized them and when he "laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied."

 

[Protestant Minister]

Most ministers and priests teach their congregations that the Holy Spirit is part of the salvation package.Sort of a two-for-one deal.Just repeat a prayer of 25 words or less and WHAM,you've got it.Instant download.Happens so fast you never even notice it.Some even teach that since you're now saved for life,you can go out and commit any sin you want to.Don't make no difference to God at all.He's signed a lifetime contract with you..Some even offer you their 25 word or less prayer on television or the internet so you don't even need to put down your cigarette.Man this instant lifetime salvation gig really rocks.I wonder why Jesus forgot to mention this new sign-up offer.No wonder it's become so so popular.It's even spread into the Morman Church.That's what's called spreading it thin.That means all those multiple wives can even get it now.Amazing!When women in the Morman church receive a benefit,you know it's wide-spread.

The reason that the baptism of the Holy Spirit. is taught to be a part of salvation ( just click here and your automatic download will start )is that those teaching this belief don't know what the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is.But they do know that now that it's even offered to Morman women,it must be popular and definitely something to talk about in sermons,and even worse - books.These same clergy however claim that the Holy Spirit is now old and probably sick or something like that so He doesn't show up to work anynore.Some even suggest that the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in some churches,are either a rehearsed stage show,or even worse, an outpouring of demon possession.Most certainly,as more and more homosexuals become ministers and priests,this siick teaching will grow in strength.

All of the above is just further evidence that we are now in the age of church apostasy,the final church age prior to the rapturre which will finally get us out of this cesspool. COME LORD JESUS! We're ready to leave now.

 

[joevberry3]

I agree Protestant Minsister.

Joe

www.arkwebshost.com/biblestudies/joevberry3/

 

[Jim B]

Of course you receive the Spirit baptism when you believe.

1 Corinthians 12.13
13For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.​

Other passages that show that believers receive the Spirit when they believe.

John 3.5-8
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[ 14:17 Some early manuscripts and is] in you.

John 20:22
And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:47
"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."

Romans 2:29
No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.[ 8:15 Or adoption] And by him we cry, "Abba,[ 8:15 Aramaic for Father] Father."

1 Corinthians 2:11-15
11The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[1] 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Ephesians 2:22
And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.​

\o/

 

[joevberry3]

NONE of those verses say we get the baptism at the exact moment of Baptism. Do tell Jim, how are some baptized long after salvation if this is true?

God Bless

 

[Jim B]

The reason that the baptism of the Holy Spirit. is taught to be a part of salvation ( just click here and your automatic download will start )is that those teaching this belief don't know what the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is. . . .
Most certainly,as more and more homosexuals become ministers and priests,this siick teaching will grow in strength.

This is strange logic, PM ... and incorrect. I know exactly what Pentecostal and many Charismatics believe when they say "Baptism of the Holy Spirit." I was a Pentecostal preacher for more than 30 years, pastored four Pentecostal churches, and taught in a Pentecostal Bible College. I am now Vineyard (considered a Charismatic or Third Wave denomination by most although we are more comfortable with the terms Empowered Evangelical or Radical Middle).

And I am heterosexual.

And I believe that we are baptized by the Spirit when we believe.

“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink,” 1 Corinthians 12.13​

What Pentecostals (I believe mistakenly) refer to as the “Baptism” of the Holy Spirit (as on the Day of Pentecost) is an infilling of the Spirit which can occur at the time of or subsequent to salvation. The event that happened at Pentecost was not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit but an infilling of the Spirit, as Acts 2.4 clearly says ... "All of them were filled with [not baptized in] the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."

I know this may just sound like symantics, but I believe it is the proper way to define terms like "baptism of Spirit," "receiving Spirit," "infilling of Spirit," etc.

\o/

 

[joevberry3]

Jim, there are some that teach that way according to what Protestant Minister said. And yeah, it is taught wrong in lots of churches. I have seen it preached that we receive the Holy Ghost ONLY at conversion and never receive another infilling of the Spirit.
I agree that sometimes we are Baptized in the Holy Ghost at conversion, but in most cases(as was most cases from the Bible) the Baptism comes AFTER salvation.
God Bless,
Joe

 

[Jim B]

Jim, there are some that teach that way according to what Protestant Minister said. And yeah, it is taught wrong in lots of churches. I am also Pentecostal, but preach at all kinds of churches.
I have seen it preached that we receive the Holy Ghost ONLY at conversion and never receive another infilling of the Spirit.
I agree that sometimes we are Baptized in the Holy Ghost at conversion, but in most cases(as was most cases from the Bible) the Baptism comes AFTER salvation.
God Bless,
Joe

We are close, Joe.

Only I believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with salvation. It is not the so-called “second work of grace” I once taught that it was. When God saved me and added me to His church I was “baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ” as 1 Cor. 12.13 plainly (at least to me) says.

But, there are "fillings" of the Holy Spirit after one is saved. That is what happened on the Day of Pentecost when they were “FILLED (not baptized) with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues.”

At Pentecost, which is the moment that the Spirit came from Christ as He had promised, the church was born. Petnecost signaled the coming of the Spirit and the Church. The disciples (120 or so), who were already believers, were at that moment both baptized into (i.e., added to) the Body of Christ as Jesus had promised them in Acts 1.5, “in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" and at the same moment also filled with the Spirit .

\o/

 

[joevberry3]

We are close, Joe.

Only I believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with salvation. It is not the so-called “second work of grace” I once taught that it was. When God saved me and added me to His church I was “baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ” as 1 Cor. 12.13 plainly (at least to me) says.

But, there are "fillings" of the Holy Spirit after one is saved. That is what happened on the Day of Pentecost when they were “FILLED (not baptized) with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues.”

At Pentecost, which is the moment that the Spirit came from Christ as He had promised, the church was born. Petnecost signaled the coming of the Spirit and the Church. The disciples (120 or so), who were already believers, were at that moment both baptized into (i.e., added to) the Body of Christ as Jesus had promised them in Acts 1.5, “in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" and at the same moment also filled with the Spirit .

\o/

Hi Jim! Thanks for explaining your position a little better. I agree with this post 100%.

God Bless,
Joe

 

[oneshot012]

Well i don't have a theological persepective but what i do have is experience and when i asked Jesus to come into my life i ask for him to give his Holy Spirit in it's fullness and when i did i was speaking in tongues a few days later so i don't know that i just what happened to me.

 

[empty page]

Recently some guest speakers came to my church and spoke about receiving the Holy Spirit, and they had some really cool insight about it. I myself was pretty confused about the whole thing, but they cleared it up for me.

I think that the Holy Spirit is with us while drawing us to Christ. He comes within us when we accept Christ, and He comes upon us when we ask Jesus Christ for the gift of the Holy Spirit. I think that when you ask for it, you receive it, no matter if you just asked Christ into your heart 2 min. ago.. or 15 yrs. ago.

 

[Jim B]

Well i don't have a theological persepective but what i do have is experience and when i asked Jesus to come into my life i ask for him to give his Holy Spirit in it's fullness and when i did i was speaking in tongues a few days later so i don't know that i just what happened to me.

The problem with experience not grounded in Scripture is that it only has your word on it. Your experience has no authority without scripture to back it up. People claim paranormal “experiences,” near death “experiences,” reincarnation “experiences,” UFO “experiences,” etc. and expect us to believe them without verification. You can call our unwillingness to accept your word for your expereince as cynicism of skepticism if you like. I call it playing it safe. Even the Bible claims that every experience requires witnesses, "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses,” (2 Cor. 13.1). So, without verifiable witnesses and scripture I cannot accept at face-value what you (or any other stranger) tells me.

The opposite of this is gullibility. And gullible people are what keeps the scam artists alive and well (and on TV).

How do you know if the person sharing their experience is not off their rocker, psychotic, or is just reacting to prescription drugs?

In Charismatic-circles we are expected to believe visions, prophecies, dreams, based on the word of the person offering the vision/prophecy/dream. Sorry, I can’t do that – even with a nice guy like you, oneshot.

I would suggest you find a biblical basis for your experience so that you can “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have,” 1 Peter 3.15.

It is going to require a lot of work and time but we are dealing with Truth here!!

\o/

 

[enoch son]

NO!

 

[Jim B]

NO!

enoch son,

'splain yourself.

Why not?

\o/

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You receive the spirit of Christ when you are born again.
Seems that some also receive the Holy Spirit at that time, but most receive at some time after.
Confusion occurs when people mistakenly think that the Holy Spirit is the same thing as the spirit of Christ.
We all receive the spirit of Christ when we are born again.. it replaces the fallen spirit of Adam.
It is no longer I that lives, it is Christ that lives in me.

This is our identity... it is who we are.

We are not the Holy Spirit.

 

[Perceivence]

Isn't the 'Spirit of Christ' the Holy Spirit?

 

[Jim B]

Isn't the 'Spirit of Christ' the Holy Spirit?

I thought so too, unless I can be proven mistaken.

Didy, can you explain why you believe them to be different?

\o/

 

[enoch son]

Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of Christ. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Spirit of God is the Father. The divine nature (or just spirit) is all three (K.James Godhead)

 

[TasManOfGod]

Most ministers and priests teach their congregations that the Holy Spirit is part of the salvation package.Sort of a two-for-one deal.Just repeat a prayer of 25 words or less and WHAM,you've got it.Instant download.Happens so fast you never even notice it.Some even teach that since you're now saved for life,you can go out and commit any sin you want to.Don't make no difference to God at all.He's signed a lifetime contract with you..Some even offer you their 25 word or less prayer on television or the internet so you don't even need to put down your cigarette.Man this instant lifetime salvation gig really rocks.I wonder why Jesus forgot to mention this new sign-up offer.No wonder it's become so so popular.It's even spread into the Morman Church.That's what's called spreading it thin.That means all those multiple wives can even get it now.Amazing!When women in the Morman church receive a benefit,you know it's wide-spread.

The reason that the baptism of the Holy Spirit. is taught to be a part of salvation ( just click here and your automatic download will start )is that those teaching this belief don't know what the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is.But they do know that now that it's even offered to Morman women,it must be popular and definitely something to talk about in sermons,and even worse - books.These same clergy however claim that the Holy Spirit is now old and probably sick or something like that so He doesn't show up to work anynore.Some even suggest that the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in some churches,are either a rehearsed stage show,or even worse, an outpouring of demon possession.Most certainly,as more and more homosexuals become ministers and priests,this siick teaching will grow in strength.

All of the above is just further evidence that we are now in the age of church apostasy,the final church age prior to the rapturre which will finally get us out of this cesspool. COME LORD JESUS! We're ready to leave now.

Well I suppose you sure are glad that you got saved despite all this cesspool activity going on

blessing
Tas