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Let me guess. The only answer you are looking for is the sacraments as taught by Roman Catholicism?Not quite correct. This is a definition of charis. Absent from my question is word "means." What is meant by the term "means of grace"?
It is a distinction between human teachings that make the gospel of no effect and the teaching of the Lord, Jesus Christ, which is the gospel of saving grace.Credobaptists believe baptism is a human work. Paedobaptists believe baptism is a means of grace....the two can never be harmonized. It is the distinction between law and gospel.
Water baptism is not included in the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4) which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.. (Romans 1:16)Are promises attached to baptism? Credos say no; Paedos say yes. Even Namaan's washing in the Jordan contained a promise.
Law/Gospel distinction
The Law is to do or not do.....Credos believe baptism is law....to do or not to do.
The gospel is all things the Trinue God's to save mankind....in Creation, Redemption and Sanctification. For paedos, baptism is an instrument of the gospel....
What makes the gospel of grace of no effect is adding works to it. (Romans 11:6)It is a distinction between human teachings that make the gospel of no effect and the teaching of the Lord, Jesus Christ, which is the gospel of saving grace.
NOPE, NOT ROMAN CATHOLIC.Let me guess. The only answer you are looking for is the sacraments as taught by Roman Catholicism?
You are still classifying baptism as a work.What makes the gospel of grace of no effect is adding works to it. (Romans 11:6)
That sir is a human teaching, a nonsense. Works of the law are an illicit addition; good works of faith and love are a necessary fruit of grace. After all grace is given to make a Christian good.What makes the gospel of grace of no effect is adding works to it. (Romans 11:6)
Grace is God's unmerited favor in which He shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions/performance/works. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or best efforts to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would not be grace.NOPE, NOT ROMAN CATHOLIC.
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All credos believe in the "means of Grace" ....the instrument or vehicle by which mankind knows of God....Scripture.
Paper and Ink deliver God's gracious promises to us. Question: Does baptism contain any promises? And can baptism deliver those promises?
You are still classifying baptism as a work.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for baptism to be a persons work. Baptism has three essential elements to it 1)water applied to the human body 2) with the name of Triune God, 3) another Christian baptizing the recipient. No Christian baptizes himself. The Christian is in a passive state during baptism. Baptism is the work of another.
No Christian can claim credit for their baptism. It is NOT a work the recipient perform. Period. No Christian can claim baptism a work than a patient claim credit for open heart surgery. Some might say...."I agreed to be baptized." But agreeing to be baptized is not baptism....it is agreeing.
So baptism is the work of another.....but according to Scripture who is the another person doing the baptism? In I Cor 1:10f who baptized who, was more important than understanding who is the REAL BAPTIZER is. Paul states clearly in vs. 13 Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
JESUS IS THE REAL BAPTIZER AS WE ARE BAPTIZED INTO HIS NAME AND HE WAS CRUCIFIED FOR US.
Even though our baptisms are done by human hands, Jesus is the one performing the action.
Baptism is gospel not law.
Grace is that and more. One receives graces, not deserved favours from a patron God, but gifts that are not deserved nor earned nor a payment for services rendered. Grace is not grace if it is wages. Just like mercy is not mercy if it is deserved. What are the graces that are received from God, they start with the life of Jesus in you, the eternal life that was with God and is God, that is what is given to a "new Christian". Wisdom is a grace, compassion is a grace, generosity is a grace, the fruit of the Spirit are graces. Grace is a huge gift wider that the seas deeper than the deepest ocean. Grace is God giving himself to and for you.Grace is God's unmerited favor
The word of God tells you.How does one achieve this ?
How can one be a Christian if they are willfullly unbaptized? He would be as an uncircumcised Jew. It is absurd
Please explain.Water baptism is a work of righteousness
This is a modern distinction of which I do not make. "Spirit" baptism as distinct from Christian baptism comes from the rise of the Charismatic movement of the 1960's and 1970's and muddies up the conversation here at CF.there is a distinction between water baptism and Spirit baptism.
I agree it's that and more as I explained in post #374. We certainly cannot earn a gift.Grace is that and more. One receives graces, not deserved favours from a patron God, but gifts that are not deserved nor earned nor a payment for services rendered. Grace is not grace if it is wages. Just like mercy is not mercy if it is deserved. What are the graces that are received from God, they start with the life of Jesus in you, the eternal life that was with God and is God, that is what is given to a "new Christian". Wisdom is a grace, compassion is a grace, generosity is a grace, the fruit of the Spirit are graces. Grace is a huge gift wider that the seas deeper than the deepest ocean. Grace is God giving himself to and for you.
I did explain it to you in post #361.Please explain.
I'm not talking the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a second blessing in addition to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. I'm talking about 1 Corinthians 12:13.This is a modern distinction of which I do not make. "Spirit" baptism as distinct from Christian baptism comes from the rise of the Charismatic movement of the 1960's and 1970's and muddies up the conversation here at CF.
When read with due care that verse tells the reader that the Holy Spirit is the one who baptises. No one is "submerged into the Holy Spirit" but one may be filled with the Holy Spirit.I'm not talking the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a second blessing in addition to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. I'm talking about 1 Corinthians 12:13.
Amen. In addition to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45; 11:17; Ephesians 1:13) and being baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13) one may also be filled with the Holy Spirit. (Acts 4:8; Ephesians 5:18)When read with due care that verse tells the reader that the Holy Spirit is the one who baptises. No one is "submerged into the Holy Spirit" but one may be filled with the Holy Spirit.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV)
Fire: Probably deals with Judgment of the Pharisees and Saduccees in vs. 7-10 and vs. 12-13 burning of chaff of unquenchable fire. I am not sure contextually what John is preaching about with the HS and judgment. Is the HS going to apart of the judgment placed up the Pharisees? I don't know. Luke 3 and Matthew 3 to many individuals are very obscure texts.He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:10,12 fits that interpretation in regard to fire.Fire: Probably deals with Judgment of the Pharisees and Saduccees in vs. 7-10 and vs. 12-13 burning of chaff of unquenchable fire. I am not sure contextually what John is preaching about with the HS and judgment. Is the HS going to apart of the judgment placed up the Pharisees? I don't know. Luke 3 and Matthew 3 to many individuals are very obscure texts.
MWhatever, "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" means, contextually it is not good to be apart of this kind of baptism.
I think that the post above illustrates the point I was attempting to make. Would it seem like 199,349,397,1.1o different denominations preach the fullness of truth, or would it seem that a billion parishioners, Priests, Bishops, and Cardinal may be able to come to a universal consensus as they did with the Biblical Cannon (which all Protestants stand behind instead of the books they didn't like) or would it seem that a globe consensus would seem more believable than nearly 200 millions of different interpretations? At the heart of what I'm asking is that do we have 199,349,297,1.10 different versions of the truth or is there only one version of truth (actually I would say there tare three competing version including the Eastern and Oriental Churches). There is a minuscule amount of differentiation on some of the creeds but all accept the same interpretation of the Bible which is the basis of most Protestant Churches considering the Bible alone concept. Would you put your hand up and say that all of these Biblical Protestant Churches have more insight than those who approved the Biblical Cannon? I mean considering that a new Church is founded just about every day based on that "Pastor's personal interpretation of the Bible? Would it perhaps be more consistent to have a global consensus?The last time I counted, there were exactly 199,349,297,110 different Protestant denominations. Or approximately 16 denominations per person in the world.
According to whom exactly? Was there a magesteriam, a council of Bishops or something similar? Also, from my understanding (which of course could be wrong) Luther never started a church. It was his predecessors who published his writings and financed the first one Church outside of the Roman, Eastern, or Oriental Churches. Can you tell me exactly under eho's authority this brand new Church was created? You can't because it was everyday laypeople who prefferef Luther's message more than their church. That is the exact moment it became possible to start your own Church no matter what your qualifications. The same reason why I am able to rent out a property, call my new church whatever I want and teach whatever I want.Lutheranism is the historic Western Evangelical church purified by the Word of God.
The "Means of Grace" is a technical theological term. The Means of Grace are God’s appointed instruments by which the Holy Spirit enables believers to receive Christ and the benefits of redemption.Grace is God's unmerited favor in which He shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions/performance/works. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or best efforts to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would not be grace.
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