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Do we need a creed?

scriptures

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I was told that a house church does not need any creed because everyone is accepted and a creed divides rather than unites.....

Well if that is true, then that will be really good, because it means no one will force his/her belief to anyone.....like if my conscience cannot accept trinity, no one will call me non christian just because I do not accept something that orthodox christians do......
 

IK_Ministry

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A Home Church is not just so everyone will get along. Home church is what the disciples did in the NT time and they walked as one and had everything in common. To say easy believism is the core of the home church "movement" is an error as bad as the world driven churches are. Sound hard core yes it is because there is only one truth and His name is Jesus. It is not about creeds or trinity or oneness - it is about Jesus and His Word.
 
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scriptures

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A Home Church is not just so everyone will get along. Home church is what the disciples did in the NT time and they walked as one and had everything in common. To say easy believism is the core of the home church "movement" is an error as bad as the world driven churches are. Sound hard core yes it is because there is only one truth and His name is Jesus. It is not about creeds or trinity or oneness - it is about Jesus and His Word.

But how do you solve disagreement in theological interpretation???
 
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Johnnz

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Creeds reflect our understanding of Scripture. They are not a badge for membership. Our acceptance of the Trinity from an earlier creed written as a summary of opposition to wrong doctrines taught by some people continues not because of an early statement but that the doctrine best explains the many scriptures that otherwise are difficult to understand.

Truth is not merely a matter of conscience. If it were Paul and the ether would NT writers would not have written with such logic and passion for correct belief. Also, the church did not begin somewhere in the 18 - 19 centuries. It has been continuous since Pentecost, and its history contains an exceedingly rich depository of Christian teaching, reflection, devotion and service. We must never turn our backs from that heritage.

John
NZ
 
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OzSpen

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Scriptures,
But how do you solve disagreement in theological interpretation???

It happens through accurate exegesis of the biblical text? Preferably based on a knowledge of the original languages of the Bible.

What is exegesis? It is the practice of interpreting the Scripture, based on the grammar, context and cultural understanding.
 
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OzSpen

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I was told that a house church does not need any creed because everyone is accepted and a creed divides rather than unites.....

Well if that is true, then that will be really good, because it means no one will force his/her belief to anyone.....like if my conscience cannot accept trinity, no one will call me non christian just because I do not accept something that orthodox christians do......

I don't agree with this perspective. What would happen if, say, some people like those who participate in this Forum were to come to a house church and present their unorthodox views? How would the house church deal with them without a statement of faith providing the parameters of orthodoxy.

I believe a statement of faith is necessary. What about a statement like this from the National Association of Evangelicals?

Sincerely, Spencer

Statement of Faith
spacer.gif
• We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God.
• We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
• We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory.
• We believe that for the salvation of lost and sinful people, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential.
• We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life.
• We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life and they that are lost unto the resurrection of damnation.
• We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.
+++++++++++
For me, I would include something like: "We believe in the ministry and participation of all believers in the spiritual gifts and roles God has given to them, for the building up of the Church. We believe all ministry should be done in an orderly and accountable manner."[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
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Johnnz

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God often surprises us. I have enjoyed rich Christian service and fellowship with Christians from many different denominations and backgrounds, even though we had very different views on some doctrines that were important to both of us. It's the life of Jesus not merely our doctrinal statements that must be the centre of our faith.

John
NZ
 
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OzSpen

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Johnnz,

I also have had and still have rich fellowship with Christians from different denominations. I didn't know that this was the issue we were discussing. We are debating the benefit or otherwise of having a Creed in a house church.

I am in support of a Statement of Faith as a broad outline of a house church's orthodoxy so that the unorthodox and heretical doctrines will have parameters for not allowing such teaching.

It is much too long a process to have to exegetically refute every unorthodox doctrine that might be promoted by new people entering a house church.

I think that the one I copied from the National Association of Evangelicals is a good one for those of us who are committed evangelical (Bible-believing) Christians. The Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed are also ones that have been used extensively as summaries of orthodoxy.

Spencer
The Aussie
 
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scriptures

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Johnnz,

I also have had and still have rich fellowship with Christians from different denominations. I didn't know that this was the issue we were discussing. We are debating the benefit or otherwise of having a Creed in a house church.

I am in support of a Statement of Faith as a broad outline of a house church's orthodoxy so that the unorthodox and heretical doctrines will have parameters for not allowing such teaching.

It is much too long a process to have to exegetically refute every unorthodox doctrine that might be promoted by new people entering a house church.

I think that the one I copied from the National Association of Evangelicals is a good one for those of us who are committed evangelical (Bible-believing) Christians. The Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed are also ones that have been used extensively as summaries of orthodoxy.

Spencer
The Aussie

I think a house church only creed is Christ, as long as a person believes in the Bible and lives accordingly, he is accepted. As much as possible they have to refrain from doctrinal differences. Especially Trinity.

Each one will progress to maturity through the Bible.
 
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murjahel

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The early church was 'house churches'
for it was illegal and dangerous to
be a Christian, so they did not put
cathedrals up...

They had a creed,
and I did some research into the early
church writings,
finding quotes from their creeds...

for creeds down through the years
have been added to, reworded,
etc to fit the doctrines of the day
and area...

so what did the original creed say...

they used the original creed
at baptism time,
if the person to be baptized agreed
with this simple 'creed' they could be
baptized...
if they had 'more gods' than the
Father, Son, and Spirit,
they were not baptized...

Surely there are many forms of
worship, many styles of music,
many variances in which translation
to use, etc..
but
there are some basic beliefs that
make one identifiable as a 'Christian'
upon which all Christians should agree...

that was the nature of the original
creed for the original cell churches...

 
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murjahel

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This is the creed that I put
together from quotes in the first
years of the church,
when it was a collection of cell churches...

THE APOSTLES' CREED

I BELIEVE IN GOD, THE FATHER:

THE MAKER OF HEAVEN AND EARTH;

I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST,
HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, OUR LORD;

WHO WAS CONCEIVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT,
AND BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY,
WHO WAS CRUCIFIED UNDER PONTIUS PILATE,
DEAD, AND BURIED;
WHO DESCENDED INTO SHEOL,
BUT ROSE FROM THE DEAD THE THIRD DAY;
WHO ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN,
AND WHO SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
THE FATHER,
WHO SHALL COME TO JUDGE
THE LIVING AND THE DEAD.

I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT;
WHO IS THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE HOLY CHURCH;
WHO BLESSES THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE SAINTS;
WHO LEADS SINNERS TO THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS;
WHO WILL EFFECT THE RESURRECTION OF THE BODY;
AND WHO ACTUATES THE LIFE EVERLASTING.

AMEN.
 
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murjahel

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history of the creed

The legend of the source of the creed says that the dictation of the creed was at the direction of the twelve (Matthias replacing Judas Ischariot) apostles. It is said that each apostle contributed a part of the whole...

Thus, Peter, it is alleged, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, began:
"I believe in God the Father..."

Andrew (some say John) continued:
"And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord..."

James the son of Zebedee contributed:
"Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit..."

The Apostles' Creed was referred to by Paul with the mention of the "form of teaching"...
Romans 6:17
"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you."

Paul later reminded Timothy of the "good confession" that he had made in the sight of "many witnesses."
I Timothy 6:12
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."

The 'Apostles' Creed' is therefore the oldest creed, and is the basis of most other creeds in Christianity. Its roots are within the apostolic times, and it embodies the dominant teachings of the apostles.

For many years, it was referred to as the "Rule of Faith" (regula fidei), terminology that later came to refer to all of Scripture. Yet, this creed was a summary of the major and vital doctrines of Scripture. Those who could trust and profess this creed were thereby approving of the doctrines of the faith.

All through the years, the creed has been attacked. It was written by the apostles to counter the early cults and heresies of the early church period. To state this creed, and to believe its tenets, required the forsaking of some false doctrines the "tares" and false prophets of the early church period were propagating.

Traces of the contents of the original creed are given to us from the early church period from Ireneas, Tertullian, Origen, etc. but though they show a great unity with a certain freedom of form in expression, no full rendering of the creed exists from the first several centuries... So although references to this creed date to the early church period, yet a full reading of the creed is not found together until 341 A.D. from Marcellus of Ancyra.

It was stated as thus:
"I believe in God the Father Almighty. And in Jesus Christ His only (begotten) Son our Lord, Who was born of the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary; crucified under Pontius Pilate, and buried; the third day, He rose from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father, from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. And in the Holy Spirit; the holy church; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; the life everlasting."


The accuracy of this creed, since it was a copy several hundred years after the original was written, is oft a debated controversy... Later that century more changes were made in this form. B

y 650 A.D.,
the 'Received Form' of the creed read;
"I believe in God the Father Almighty; Maker of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ His only (begotten) Son our Lord; Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into sheol; the third day He rose from the dead; He ascended into heaven; and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit; the holy catholic church; the communion of the saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen."

Various corruptions were made of the true text...
One of the heresies of the early church, was the gnostic heresy. This creed was to counter was that of the gnostics... The gnostics came up with their own creed, a perverted version of the real creed. A second century copy of the gnostic creed has been reconstructed from Hippolytus.

It read:
"We believe, that Christ descended from the Power above, from the Good; that He is the Son of the Good; that He was not born of a virgin, and that when He did appear He was not devoid of flesh. That He formed His body by taking portions of it from the substance of the universe, i.e. hot and cold, moist and dry; That He received cosmical powers in the Body, and lived for the time He did in the world; That He was crucified by the Jews and died; That being raised again after three days, He appeared to His disciples; That He showed them the prints of the nails and (the wound) in His side, being desirous of persuading them that He was no phantom, but was present in the flesh; That after He had shown them His flesh, He restored it to earth; That after He had once more loosed the chains of His body He gave back heat to what is hot, cold to what is cold, moisture to what moist, and dryness to what is dry; That in this condition He departed to the Good Father, leaving the Seed of Life in the world for those who though His disciples should believe in Him."


Various attacks on the doctrines of the Apostles' Creed are still continuing today... There are teachings amidst the false prophets of our day still concerning the virgin birth, the incarnation of deity into a human body, the resurrection of the dead, the three person Godhead, etc. There are additions that some want to add as indispensable to faith, which the creed does not include as indispensable tenets of the faith.

Like the attacks of the Ebionites and of the gnostic heresy, the attacks of our day are still silenced by the true apostolic creed.

The creed was employed to check the validity of those claiming to be teachers of the faith.

The creed had originated from the early oral teaching of the apostles... hence it was a witness to the common faith...

It was not to supersede Scripture, but to corroborate Scripture...
It was used to hinder the spread of heresies and false doctrines that would pervert true doctrine and truth.

The creed was used originally as a baptismal confession, to authenticate and verify that one about to be baptized was truly a convert to the true faith.

The use of the Apostles' Creed in the early church has long been overlooked. Many saints have become aware of the creed only in a recitation given in church with little conscious thought being given to what they were saying. Many other saints have never read the creed...

It is vitally important, and the Scriptures confirm this...
Christian baptism is an ordinance of the church age. It was appointed by our Lord Jesus, He commanded us to baptize converts. It was meant to be a means (until Jesus returns) to admit converts to discipleship.

Matthew 28:18-20
"All power (authority) is given unto Me... Go ye therefore and teach (literally = make disciples) of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.... teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you, and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the age..."

This shows a three-fold plan of the Lord for disciples to do during this church age. He tells the disciples:
to take His "authority" and "make disciples"... and to teach them to observe all" that had been commanded of the Lord to be taught...

The "Apostles' Creed" was a summary of the vital truths to be so taught...

The Apostles' Creed would test their conversion of the truth...
to baptize those who believed such truths...
 
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