Miss Shelby said:
hmm...speculating on the unsaved? Sounds like more of Protestant invention to me.
Michelle
Dear Michelle and NYJ,
I really hope this thread dies Or maybe the good fairy will come along and delete it. But I really do think it is a legitmate "musing"...St. Augustine also mused on it, as did many others of our blessed Fathers. Okay, maybe they didn't post it on a message board,but they certainly wrote about it in a public format. Can we all just "get along"? LOL! Anyway, I respect you greatly and hope this will not deter you from coming here and being friends with me, or any other Orthodox here...it really was just a musing with no ill intent.
Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo:
In his sermons he says to all: "It depends on you to be elect" (In Ps. cxx, n. 11, etc.); "Who are the elect? You, if you wish it" (In Ps. Lxxiii, n. 5). But, you will say, according to Augustine, the lists of the elect and reprobate are closed. Now if the non-elect
can gain heaven, if all the elect
can be lost, why should not some pass from one list to the other? You forget the celebrated explanation of Augustine: When
God made His plan, He knew
infallibly, before His choice, what would be the response of the wills of men to His graces. If, then, the lists are definitive, if no one will pass from one series to the other, it is not because
anyone cannot (on the contrary, all can), it is because
God knew with infallible knowledge that
no one would wish to. Thus I cannot effect that
God should destine me to another series of graces than that which He has fixed, but, with this grace, if I do not save myself it will not be because I am not able, but because I do not wish to.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02091a.htm
Quotes:
Thou hast made us for Thyself, O God, and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee. *St. Augustine
Where Peter is, there is the Church. Where the Church is, there is Jesus Christ. Where Jesus Christ is, there is eternal salvation. *St. Ambrose
Luke 13:27 "Away from me, all you evildoers" --Jesus
Matthew 7:14 "...small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Matthew 19:24 "...it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Luke 13:23-30 "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?...many I tell you will try to enter and will not be able to."
John 12:48: "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day."
Even the disciples were distressed at Jesus' statement in Matthew 19:24. They asked who can be saved. He replied that an individual trying on their own to do good and attain salvation will always fail. But with God's help, they will be able to achieve salvation through this route.
-So to everyone in this thread: If even the disciples were worried and thinking about it, how much more do students of Christianity think about it and worry about it and need a place to come and ask the question.
It's not a "protestant" question. It's a human question. We are all human. After this thread started gaining negative responses, I resisted the urge to edit my answer and erase what I originally said. I have not edited it, because I believe that while I may be wrong in my answer, the question deserves a little dignity on the part of the querent. I will accept full responsibility for what I say. That's a far greater risk, than risking your disapproval. Let's not turn away from people who have serious questions, just for the sake of political correctness.
That is my feeling and I hope it will not prevent future friendships or continued exchange between us.
In love and friendship:
Suzannah
