DO We Have Free Will?

Frenchfrye · Jan 5, 2013

sin on earth shows everyone what the opposite of gods law is if there wasnt free will could satan have sinned in heaven or adam and eve sinned in the garden? God doesnt want sin but he wants us to be happy even if it hurts us so he lets us sin and allows suffering because if he people wouldnt love God which is what he wants they would fear him out of not wanting to be destroyed when jesus ends sin we will all know what the outcome isso no one will question him any sooner people would think God is a tyrant

bling · Jan 5, 2013

sunlover1 said:
Are you trying to say that God's WILL is for me to sin but His DESIRE is that I don't?

All mature adults sin, so is God allowing sin to happen and if so for what purpose?

God could have kept satan out of the garden and there did not have to be a tree of knowledge, centrally located, looking good to eat, unprotected, and have some highly perceived desirable quality. So why did God set Adam and Eve up to eventually sin?

Is sin a problem or is it only unforgiven sin that is the problem?

If it would help man in fulfilling mans earthly objective to first sin would a Loving God quench His own desire to help man fulfill his objective?

Rick Otto · Jan 5, 2013

Frenchfrye said:
sin on earth shows everyone what the opposite of gods law is if there wasnt free will could satan have sinned in heaven or adam and eve sinned in the garden? God doesnt want sin but he wants us to be happy even if it hurts us so he lets us sin and allows suffering because if he people wouldnt love God which is what he wants they would fear him out of not wanting to be destroyed when jesus ends sin we will all know what the outcome isso no one will question him any sooner people would think God is a tyrant

That's right. God doesn't rule, He reigns.

Frenchfrye · Jan 5, 2013

bling said:
All mature adults sin, so is God allowing sin to happen and if so for what purpose?

God could have kept satan out of the garden and there did not have to be a tree of knowledge, centrally located, looking good to eat, unprotected, and have some highly perceived desirable quality. So why did God set Adam and Eve up to eventually sin?

Is sin a problem or is it only unforgiven sin that is the problem?

If it would help man in fulfilling mans earthly objective to first sin would a Loving God quench His own desire to help man fulfill his objective?

again if not given the choice people could say god isnt fair by allowing this to happen he is being fair and lettingus learn through experience i guess

sunlover1 · Jan 5, 2013

Frenchfrye said:
sin on earth shows everyone what the opposite of gods law is if there wasnt free will could satan have sinned in heaven or adam and eve sinned in the garden? God doesnt want sin but he wants us to be happy even if it hurts us so he lets us sin and allows suffering ...

I agree

bling said:
All mature adults sin, so is God allowing sin to happen and if so for what purpose?

God could have kept satan out of the garden and there did not have to be a tree of knowledge, centrally located, looking good to eat, unprotected, and have some highly perceived desirable quality. So why did God set Adam and Eve up to eventually sin?

Is sin a problem or is it only unforgiven sin that is the problem?

If it would help man in fulfilling mans earthly objective to first sin would a Loving God quench His own desire to help man fulfill his objective?

You just keep asking me more questions and never answer any of mine?

I can keep answering all night long but each one is like the last so I'll wait for your answer to my last one.
The one you posted above all of these questions.

Frenchfrye · Jan 5, 2013

sunlover1 said:
I agree

You just keep asking me more questions and never answer any of mine?

I can keep answering all night long but each one is like the last so I'll wait for your answer to my last one.
The one you posted above all of these questions.

what was the question

Giver · Jan 5, 2013

bling said:
All mature adults sin, so is God allowing sin to happen and if so for what purpose?

God could have kept satan out of the garden and there did not have to be a tree of knowledge, centrally located, looking good to eat, unprotected, and have some highly perceived desirable quality. So why did God set Adam and Eve up to eventually sin?

Is sin a problem or is it only unforgiven sin that is the problem?

If it would help man in fulfilling mans earthly objective to first sin would a Loving God quench His own desire to help man fulfill his objective?

If what you said were true then all Christians would be of the devil.

(1 John 3:8) He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work

A Christian is dead to sin, and will not sin.

(Romans 6: 1-2) What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

(Romans 6:11) In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus

You are so wrong!

sunlover1 · Jan 5, 2013

bling said:
Jesus says: “Yet not as I will, but as you will.” So it seems to be God’s will for Christ to go to the cross, but was it really God’s desire to have Christ tortured, humiliated and murdered?

God’s will in Wiki is defined as God’s plan. Could God’s plan have some actions God does not “desire” people or Christ to go through, but knows it is what is needed? Parents do not want their children to fall learning to ride a bike, but understand they will and yet teach them to ride a bike.

Sin has purpose that helps the unbeliever fulfill His objective, yet God does not want or desire that anyone sins.

sunlover1 said:
The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some people understand slowness, but is being patient with you. He does not want anyone to perish, but wants everyone to repent.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
THE LORD JEHOVAH does not delay his promises as people consider delay, but he is patient for your sakes, and because he is not willing that any person would perish, but that every person would come to conversion.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The Lord isn't slow to do what he promised, as some people think. Rather, he is patient for your sake. He doesn't want to destroy anyone but wants all people to have an opportunity to turn to him and change the way they think and act.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. __________________

The dictionary has a ton of possible words to substitute for will, but there is a huge difference between the “will” of a mere human and the all-powerful God.

Click to expand...

Weymouth New Testament
Again a second time He went away and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is

impossible for this cup to pass without my drinking it, Thy will be done."

World English Bible
Again, a second time he went away, and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this

cup can't pass away from me unless I drink it, your desire be done."

Young's Literal Translation
Again, a second time, having gone away, he prayed, saying, 'My Father, if

this cup cannot pass away from me except I drink it, Thy will be done;'

Are you trying to say that God's WILL is for me to sin but His DESIRE is that I don't?

Frenchfrye said:
what was the question

Above in green.
I give answers and get nothing but more questions.
Yet my answers are ignored and more questions follow.

So I cried foul

Rick Otto · Jan 5, 2013

Is it better to cry fowl than to call him chicken?

sunlover1 · Jan 6, 2013

Rick Otto said:
Is it better to cry fowl than to call him chicken?

Eggsactly!

Actually I'm just happy that someone would even discuss it with me lol.
And so civilized too, bless Bling's heart!

seeking Christ · Jan 6, 2013

sunlover1 said:
[
Do you believe that it's ever God's will for me to sin?
Don't feel obligated to answer, just wondered.
Personally I don't believe it.
But I've been wrong before.

Such doubt is sin! (Just kidding)

I haven't read the whole thread, but point out that different people use the term "free will" differently. So we must define what we mean by that.

I think of it in the simple version, of I can either choose between options, or I can't. In that sense, I find it a useful concept. And I hope that in that sense, of course we all have free will

Giver · Jan 6, 2013

Seeing that Jesus is God, and knew why he wanted to die on the cross, and that it was Gods/Jesus will to do so, then yes God wanted to suffer for us. Why is not important for us to know.

Jesus gave me some advice years ago, when he told me audibly; Bob stop trying to figure me out, and just follow me.

bling · Jan 6, 2013

sorry wrong person

bling · Jan 6, 2013

sunlover1 said:
You just keep asking me more questions and never answer any of mine?

I can keep answering all night long but each one is like the last so I'll wait for your answer to my last one.
The one you posted above all of these questions.

The answer is yes.

It is truly unfortunate but for man to fulfill his earth objective, he must sin, so it is Gods will that all mature adults sin and all come through with this need.

Now you can address my questions:

All mature adults sin, so is God allowing sin to happen and if so for what purpose?

God could have kept satan out of the garden and there did not have to be a tree of knowledge, centrally located, looking good to eat, unprotected, and have some highly perceived desirable quality. So why did God set Adam and Eve up to eventually sin?

Is sin a problem or is it only unforgiven sin that is the problem?

If it would help man in fulfilling mans earthly objective to first sin would a Loving God quench His own desire to help man fulfill his objective?

Frenchfrye · Jan 6, 2013

bling said:
The answer is yes.

It is truly unfortunate but for man to fulfill his earth objective, he must sin, so it is Gods will that all mature adults sin and all come through with this need.

Now you can address my questions:

All mature adults sin, so is God allowing sin to happen and if so for what purpose?

God could have kept satan out of the garden and there did not have to be a tree of knowledge, centrally located, looking good to eat, unprotected, and have some highly perceived desirable quality. So why did God set Adam and Eve up to eventually sin?

Is sin a problem or is it only unforgiven sin that is the problem?

If it would help man in fulfilling mans earthly objective to first sin would a Loving God quench His own desire to help man fulfill his objective?

God allows sin because he wants us to know just how evil sin is. at the end of time he will end sin because we will know how bad it is. God put the tree in and allowed satan in because he wanted to know if we would be loyal to God and we failed he didnt kill them because its there free will to sin. our mission isnt to sin but to prepare the way for jesus to return romans talks about that and God would stop his will if its what he want because he loves us enough to let us be happy with our choices. somewhat like learning the hard way.

Giver · Jan 6, 2013

bling said:
The answer is yes.

It is truly unfortunate but for man to fulfill his earth objective, he must sin, so it is Gods will that all mature adults sin and all come through with this need.

Now you can address my questions:

All mature adults sin, so is God allowing sin to happen and if so for what purpose?

God could have kept satan out of the garden and there did not have to be a tree of knowledge, centrally located, looking good to eat, unprotected, and have some highly perceived desirable quality. So why did God set Adam and Eve up to eventually sin?

Is sin a problem or is it only unforgiven sin that is the problem?

If it would help man in fulfilling mans earthly objective to first sin would a Loving God quench His own desire to help man fulfill his objective?

(Hebrews 10:26-31) If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies--------------

(Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira

(1 John 5:18) We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him

(1 John 3:4-6) Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

(1 John 3:8) He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devils work

sunlover1 · Jan 6, 2013

bling said:
The answer is yes.

It is truly unfortunate but for man to fulfill his earth objective, he must sin, so it is God’s will that all mature adults sin and all come through with this need.

Hi Bling, Thanks for answering!

I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spiritf of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Now you can address my questions:

All mature adults sin, so is God allowing sin to happen and if so for what purpose?

Well I agree with Frenchfrye's understanding but
also, God already handled sin....
I think that's the main point we should remember,
that we might focus on life rather than how creepy we were.

God could have kept satan out of the garden and there did not have to be a tree of knowledge, centrally located, looking good to eat, unprotected, and have some highly perceived desirable quality. So why did God set Adam and Eve up to eventually sin?

Same reason as Frenchfrye already suggested earlier.
Would you like to have a wife who had NO choice but to be with
you? No choice. She either had to do it your way or no way.
Wouldja feel the love? Might she become bitter and sad?
Or would you that she might have a choice to love you or to walk away?
Which love do you want?
Which love would you desire for her?

For now.
Be back later.

seeking Christ · Jan 6, 2013

bling said:
why did God set Adam and Eve up to eventually sin?

I take exception to your suggestion:

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

seeking Christ · Jan 6, 2013

sunlover1 said:
I think that's the main point we should remember,
that we might focus on life rather than how creepy we were.

sunlover1 · Jan 7, 2013

seeking Christ said:

lol. Does sound silly
See the red below.

11When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here,b he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.
12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.
13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.
14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,c so that we may serve the living God!

DO We Have Free Will?

spreading the bible

Regular Member

The Dude Abides

spreading the bible

Beloved, Let us love one another

spreading the bible

Well-Known Member

Beloved, Let us love one another

The Dude Abides

Beloved, Let us love one another

seeking Christ

Guest

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

spreading the bible

Well-Known Member

Beloved, Let us love one another

seeking Christ

Guest

seeking Christ

Guest

Beloved, Let us love one another

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency