Do the two separate Adventist sections on CF reflect the reality within the Adventist Church?

[evangelicalsabbatarian]

Do the two separate Adventist sections on CF reflect the reality within the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

 

[overcomer]

Do the two separate Adventist sections on CF reflect the reality within the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

Yeah, pretty much. And the members who still hold the original SDA beliefs are an endangered species.

 

[evangelicalsabbatarian]

Yeah, pretty much. And the members who still hold the original SDA beliefs are an endangered species.

Which particular Adventist beliefs are you talking about?

 

[mmksparbud]

I never even know of 2 different categories until I came to this site!! I guess I go under traditional--I'm afraid to even ask about what progressives believe!

 

[mmksparbud]

I see---I guess that is why I've seen some SDA express some different believes. I thought they were maybe just new or something. I've not been able to go to church for a few years, and I do not get 3ABN and so just record It is written and Amazing Facts when they appear so I have something for Sabbath. So I'm not really up on the latest happenings---just as well!

 

[evangelicalsabbatarian]

What beliefs would one need to have to qualify as a traditional or progressive Adventist?

 

[mmksparbud]

What beliefs would one need to have to qualify as a traditional or progressive Adventist?

In addition to the above:
We are saved by grace
Jesus Christ is the One and only son of God
There is only one God---Jesus Christ is also God and the Holy Spirit--but only one God
we keep all 10 commandments---including the Sabbath one--but that will not save you---it is salvation by grace, we keep commandments out of love for God and man
We believe in eating and drinking to the glory of God for optimum health that we may do more for God and man and we eat clean meats only, no alcohol, no smoking and avoiding caffeine, most are vegetarians, some are vegan, or whatever else your health requires----out pot lucks are always vegetarian--these are health principles and not to get into heaven--still is by grace
We believe in dressing modestly without calling attention to ourselves and without needless adornment such as jewelry (makeup is minimal to look your best and healthiest without calling attention to yourself---some wear none)
Our speech is also to be Christ like without profanity and our music to be uplifting along with what we read and watch
We believe God wants us to be healthy, joyful, content
We do not believe in going to hell or heaven immediately after death
We do not believe in an everlasting burning hell
We wait for the soon coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ when the saved will be resurrected to be with Jesus during the 1000 years, after which the judgement of the wicked and their destruction and the cleansing of the earth and the heavens and earth remade and the New Jerusalem brought down.

This is traditional I have no idea about progressives.

 

[overcomer]

Yes, it is a blessing in disguise for those of us that can't physically go to a conference church....

I still go until they tell me not to. I don't antagonize but when they started talking about doctrine and I can't keep quiet.

I go because there are still sincere people who are looking for truth. And when new people come, they are left to the wolves if all lights are removed from the church.

 

[overcomer]

Good points but remember what sister White said that light in a dark place will not illuminate the darkness but is in danger of being swallowed by it.... something like that.

Hmm...not familiar with that quote. I would have to look it up. Another reason I haven't left is that this is my church. I still believe in our original message. I'm the real Seventh-day Adventist. My church has been hijacked by these people who don't believe in SDA message. They should leave, not me. Maybe I'm defiant.

But I also look at the Philadelphian church, why are they recorded for the Laodicean church? Because they go through the Laodiceans and witness to them.

Bro. EC, remember when Elijah ran away when he thought he was the only faithful one left. God said to him, 'What are you doing here?' We have got a job to do. Let me quote some of words of encouragement:

The church is God’s fortress, His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world. Any betrayal of the church is treachery to Him who has bought mankind with the blood of His only-begotten Son. From the beginning, faithful souls have constituted the church on earth. In every age the Lord has had His watchmen, who have borne a faithful testimony to the generation in which they lived. These sentinels gave the message of warning; and when they were called to lay off their armor, others took up the work. God brought these witnesses into covenant relation with Himself, uniting the church on earth with the church in heaven. He has sent forth His angels to minister to His church, and the gates of hell have not been able to prevail against His people. {AA 11.2}
Through centuries of persecution, conflict, and darkness, God has sustained His church. Not one cloud has fallen upon it that He has not prepared for; not one opposing force has risen to counterwork His work, that He has not foreseen. All has taken place as He predicted. He has not left His church forsaken, but has traced in prophetic declarations what would occur, and that which His Spirit inspired the prophets to foretell has been brought about. All His purposes will be fulfilled. His law is linked with His throne, and no power of evil can destroy it. Truth is inspired and guarded by God; and it will triumph over all opposition. {AA 11.3}
During ages of spiritual darkness the church of God has been as a city set on a hill. From age to age, through successive generations, the pure doctrines of heaven have been unfolding within its borders. Enfeebled and defective as it may appear, the church is the one object upon which God bestows in a special sense His supreme regard. It is the theater of His grace, in which He delights to reveal His power to transform hearts. {AA 12.1}

 

[reddogs]

Do the two separate Adventist sections on CF reflect the reality within the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

It is what we were told would happen from the Spirit of Prophecy..."

Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest.--2SM 114 (1896).

173

There will be a shaking of the sieve. The chaff must in time be separated from the wheat. Because iniquity abounds, the love of many waxes cold. It is the very time when the genuine will be the strongest.--Letter 46, 1887.

The history of the rebellion of Dathan and Abiram is being repeated, and will be repeated till the close of time. Who will be on the Lord's side? Who will be deceived, and in their turn become deceivers?--Letter 15, 1892."

 

[masmpg]

Do the two separate Adventist sections on CF reflect the reality within the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

SDAs along with all those who want to escape the apostasy in all denominations are being driven into these forums, and out of fellowship with our local churches. The churches in my area make if impossible to share present truth in any way, not even at pot lucks. I live in a predominantly SDA town.

 

[masmpg]

I still go until they tell me not to. I don't antagonize but when they started talking about doctrine and I can't keep quiet.

I go because there are still sincere people who are looking for truth. And when new people come, they are left to the wolves if all lights are removed from the church.

Last couple times I went was a disaster. Instead of using the sabbath school quarterly our church has a book reading class. We were reading the Great Controversy. I would study during the week to bring points of interest to the class through Sister Whites writings, this is where it gets quite interesting. While this class reads from SOP books they will not allow anything from her writings to support what is being read from them. The last sabbath I attended the "ex" pastor was there, whom I never met and while we were reading from the GC we read about those who will not call sin by its right name. So I proceeded to ask the class if anyone questioned the error taught a couple sabbaths ago on the Hebrews 4 sermon. I did question the speaker, because that is my job. I never have argued with any speaker, but we all must show them when they are wrong and we know it. I started to read a quote from Sister White that said "In our largest churches the greatest evils exist, because these have had the greatest light. They have not a true knowledge of God, and of Jesus Christ whom he has sent. The leaven of unbelief is working, and unless these evils which bring the displeasure of God are corrected in its members, the whole church stands accountable for them." { RH December 23, 1890, Art. B, par. 10 } Before I could read it one of the elders said do not read that! and gave me such a horrifying glance...The "ex" pastor looked at me, and didn't introduce himself but the first words out of his mouth were "how would you like to leave". I didn't even read the quote and he said that. After class the "ex" pastor started in on me. I looked him in the eyes and said "only those who sigh and cry for the abominations that are being done in the church will receive the seal of God" very calmly, he was speechless. Then I asked him "are you crying aloud and sparing not?" After church about three people approached me and said that "we need more people like you here". I said what is wrong with you? That was the last time I attended a church.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

I never even know of 2 different categories until I came to this site!! I guess I go under traditional--I'm afraid to even ask about what progressives believe!

They must not believe in posting on a forum. Lol

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

I see---I guess that is why I've seen some SDA express some different believes. I thought they were maybe just new or something. I've not been able to go to church for a few years, and I do not get 3ABN and so just record It is written and Amazing Facts when they appear so I have something for Sabbath. So I'm not really up on the latest happenings---just as well!

Where I live, 3ABN has about 3or4 channels by antenna, but not dish or cable. If you have direct- HOPE channel is SDA , kinda liberal. It's in with all the religious channels. Peace be with you.

 

[masmpg]

What beliefs would one need to have to qualify as a traditional or progressive Adventist?

There is no such thing as a "progressive" adventist. Here is a quote to ban all notions of anything be "new" or "different" than what was written of God throughout His holy word the KJV bible. Solomon was good at referring to the old in ecclesiastes. He states in different ways that there is nothing new under the sun, its all vanity and vexation of Spirit. Anything that we would consider progressive moves off that platform onto the precipice which is not far from the cliff which many denominations have already jumped off, and we need to yell and scream to bring their members back to the truth.

Here are some wonderful verses to assure us as Christians the God never changes, like the denominations want us to think in their "progressive" movements.
Ecclesiastes:1:9: "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."
Malachi:3:6: "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."
Ephesians:4:4-6: "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
Isaiah:40:21: "Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?"
John:8:25: "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning."
Ephesians:3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
There are many more verses that thrill my heart to no end because all the new "modern" translations which attempt to change God's holy word the KJV bible, and all the new and exciting ways to preach the "gospel" which in reality is not the gospel mean absolutely nothing. What makes Jesus weep is that too many are falling for the "progressive" movement.

 

[masmpg]

I still go until they tell me not to. I don't antagonize but when they started talking about doctrine and I can't keep quiet.

I go because there are still sincere people who are looking for truth. And when new people come, they are left to the wolves if all lights are removed from the church.

It is good that you are continuing to attend church, but the Holy Spirit will be the cause of leaving. When the shaking happens the "counsel by the true witness" which is the Holy Spirit working through God's people, "to the Laodiceans" will cause the church to rise up against that testimony. I have sent over 200 e mails to SDA churches with the RH article by Sister White called "The Laodicean Condition". I received 3 responses to all those e mails and they were all to tell me to remove them from my e mail list. It is easy to find the list of all e mail addresses for all SDA churches. The shaking is not necessarily what we say but whom do we reflect. When the Holy Spirit works in and through us it is very evident. I am certain you have noticed it yourself. I have had the experience of what it is like when the church rises up against me for doing God's work and they were jealous. I use to bring a van load of people to church every sabbath. For years we did this through a thrift store ministry which the Lord opened up for my family to run. Just because I am a nobody, and have no credentials I was an outcast in my dear church family. I stood against the board many times when I was on the board for a short time. After I rebuked them for backstabbing they would never have me on the board again. During one board meeting we put a couple "on trial" so to speak. They did nothing wrong except stick with the bible and SOP over the church manual. During this board meeting the members started bad mouthing this couple. I told everyone to wait a minute, I stood up went out into the sanctuary where they were waiting on the results and invited them in. I told the board that if they have ought against these members they need to say it to them. These two were longstanding members, and elder and a deaconess who were bewildered as to why they were being disfellowshipped. This is why I do not attend any local churches around here. I stand for the truth which they cannot accept. I have never argued, but have always stated truth in a way that they could not deny it, they could only rise up against it.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

It is good that you are continuing to attend church, but the Holy Spirit will be the cause of leaving. When the shaking happens the "counsel by the true witness" which is the Holy Spirit working through God's people, "to the Laodiceans" will cause the church to rise up against that testimony. I have sent over 200 e mails to SDA churches with the RH article by Sister White called "The Laodicean Condition". I received 3 responses to all those e mails and they were all to tell me to remove them from my e mail list. It is easy to find the list of all e mail addresses for all SDA churches. The shaking is not necessarily what we say but whom do we reflect. When the Holy Spirit works in and through us it is very evident. I am certain you have noticed it yourself. I have had the experience of what it is like when the church rises up against me for doing God's work and they were jealous. I use to bring a van load of people to church every sabbath. For years we did this through a thrift store ministry which the Lord opened up for my family to run. Just because I am a nobody, and have no credentials I was an outcast in my dear church family. I stood against the board many times when I was on the board for a short time. After I rebuked them for backstabbing they would never have me on the board again. During one board meeting we put a couple "on trial" so to speak. They did nothing wrong except stick with the bible and SOP over the church manual. During this board meeting the members started bad mouthing this couple. I told everyone to wait a minute, I stood up went out into the sanctuary where they were waiting on the results and invited them in. I told the board that if they have ought against these members they need to say it to them. These two were longstanding members, and elder and a deaconess who were bewildered as to why they were being disfellowshipped. This is why I do not attend any local churches around here. I stand for the truth which they cannot accept. I have never argued, but have always stated truth in a way that they could not deny it, they could only rise up against it.

A sad testimony played out too many times throughout Adventism today...

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

overcomer- It's GOOD to speak out when you HAVE TO! If there were MORE like you, there wouldnt be men sent from the GC to meet the pope and have their picture made at the "caving" ceremonies! There wouldnt be such apostacies that are causing tried and true pioneer following members to leave because of the shame. There wouldnt be churches full of young people who have no idea what truth is. You know how decay works in generations. Imagine what their kids will be indoctrinated into.

 

[overcomer]

It is good that you are continuing to attend church, but the Holy Spirit will be the cause of leaving. When the shaking happens the "counsel by the true witness" which is the Holy Spirit working through God's people, "to the Laodiceans" will cause the church to rise up against that testimony. I have sent over 200 e mails to SDA churches with the RH article by Sister White called "The Laodicean Condition". I received 3 responses to all those e mails and they were all to tell me to remove them from my e mail list. It is easy to find the list of all e mail addresses for all SDA churches. The shaking is not necessarily what we say but whom do we reflect. When the Holy Spirit works in and through us it is very evident. I am certain you have noticed it yourself. I have had the experience of what it is like when the church rises up against me for doing God's work and they were jealous. I use to bring a van load of people to church every sabbath. For years we did this through a thrift store ministry which the Lord opened up for my family to run. Just because I am a nobody, and have no credentials I was an outcast in my dear church family. I stood against the board many times when I was on the board for a short time. After I rebuked them for backstabbing they would never have me on the board again. During one board meeting we put a couple "on trial" so to speak. They did nothing wrong except stick with the bible and SOP over the church manual. During this board meeting the members started bad mouthing this couple. I told everyone to wait a minute, I stood up went out into the sanctuary where they were waiting on the results and invited them in. I told the board that if they have ought against these members they need to say it to them. These two were longstanding members, and elder and a deaconess who were bewildered as to why they were being disfellowshipped. This is why I do not attend any local churches around here. I stand for the truth which they cannot accept. I have never argued, but have always stated truth in a way that they could not deny it, they could only rise up against it.

Oh I hear you!

The way the board meetings are conducted is totally unbiblical.

The meetings are conducted behind closed doors and the evidence is examined secretly. Only the final verdict is announced publicly. You have no chance to face the accusers and argue your case. That's exactly how inquisition was done. I tell them they are Catholics. They just don't know they are. Of course they love it when hear that.

I refuse to send my tithe to an organization who is openly antagonistic to our message. I send it to independent ministries and local churches where truth is still allowed.

Not that I want to be on the board after seeing how things are done, but I'm not legible to serve and preach. I know I was removed from pulpit because my message is 'scary and judgmental' (not because of the tithe issue). They love to hear 'you are all God's children and going to heaven'.

This past Saturday the head elder called me to her office and asked me why I and some other people keep talking downstairs after the Sabbath class is over and not join the worship service. I said people are adults and are free to do what they want to do. She insisted there are rules we need to follow. I told her I'd gladly follow if worship service is done the way it's supposed to be done, not with the drums and Pentecostal style of praise music and the sermons actually feed the flock. She asked me why I come to the church if I don't agree with them. I told her I'm the real Seventh day Adventist. This is my church. Why should I leave? She said she learned something new that she's not a SDA. I told her I don't decide what anyone is. They determine that by what they believe in.

This is why I still go. This is my church that has been infiltrated and hijacked. I'm not leaving until they get a restraining order for the public place of worship. And I still reach many new comers and old members who are reviving.

There might be a time when the spirit tells me to leave. But that time is not yet.

 

[overcomer]

overcomer- It's GOOD to speak out when you HAVE TO! If there were MORE like you, there wouldnt be men sent from the GC to meet the pope and have their picture made at the "caving" ceremonies! There wouldnt be such apostacies that are causing tried and true pioneer following members to leave because of the shame. There wouldnt be churches full of young people who have no idea what truth is. You know how decay works in generations. Imagine what their kids will be indoctrinated into.

Yeah, I know. The Devil always destroys the youth first. Our youth Sabbath school teacher listens to ACDC. And I served on our school board. I'd say the whole system is set up to destroy our youth.

The principal (a very nice lady) asked the students to write a wishlist to Santa. Amazing!