Do the Saints talk back?

[Presentist]

When Catholics pray to the Saints, do the Saints talk back?

I have heard Catholics give different answers to this question. What do each of you believe?

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[DrBubbaLove]

When someone asks one to pray for them is it expected to always "talk back"?

Is the question do Catholics hear voices when they pray? Or is it do we believe there can be apparitions? No and yes.

 

[Presentist]

Is the question do Catholics hear voices when they pray?

Yes. That was the question.

I think your answer is No, correct?

What do the rest of you believe?

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[DrBubbaLove]

Yes. That was the question.

I think your answer is No, correct?

What do the rest of you believe?

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No, Not correct.
The point of asking someone to pray for me has never been to get them to talk to me. A simple "ok" or even a nod is fine but even that is not required, especially from someone I know to be a pray Warrior. All I need do is ask because I know they will do it without them acknowledging anything.

So the idea that people praying to Saints need or expect to hear back from them. It is not the point of asking.

 

[Presentist]

No, Not correct.

I am not sure I understand your response. What is your answer...

Are there times when the Saints talk back to the Catholics that pray to them?

(A simple yes or no will suffice.)

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[steve_bakr]

When Catholics pray to the Saints, do the Saints talk back?

I have heard Catholics give different answers to this question. What do each of you believe?

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Not generally, but it's possible.

 

[Presentist]

Not generally, but it's possible.

What is holding them back from speaking to us often (if they have the ability)? I am sure they would want to.

I ask because I am not sure of the Catholic teaching on this.

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[DrBubbaLove]

I am not sure I understand your response. What is your answer...

Are there times when the Saints talk back to the Catholics that pray to them?

(A simple yes or no will suffice.)

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I do not think apparitions or visions are typically associated with these prayers. As I tried to explain a prayer to a Saint is a prayer request. It is not a summons or an invitation for dialogue. Just as asking a friend to pray for us is not normally an ice-breaker.

That visions and apparitions occur I do not doubt, but there is no Catholic teaching that such things are expected and certainly not the point of praying to a Saint (asking them to pray for us).

 

[Presentist]

As I tried to explain a prayer to a Saint is a prayer request. It is not a summons or an invitation for dialogue.

The basic argument for praying to saints that has been provided goes something like this... living christians and christians in Heaven are united. Just as you would ask a living christian to pray for you, you would also ask a christian in Heavenn to pray for you.

But if that is the case, why would you not dialogue with the christians in Heaven? You dialogue with christians on earth.

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[Proctor]

I FEEL, that spiritually elevated personalities REMAIN spiritually alive, EVEN AFTER they exit the physical world.

One's communication with a saint would depend on the degree of acuity of our own spiritual inner eye.

 

[Presentist]

I FEEL, that spiritually elevated personalities REMAIN spiritually alive, EVEN AFTER they exit the physical world.

One's communication with a saint would depend on the degree of acuity of our own spiritual inner eye.

What kind of a church do you attend? Roman Catholic?

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[DrBubbaLove]

The basic argument for praying to saints that has been provided goes something like this... living christians and christians in Heaven are united. Just as you would ask a living christian to pray for you, you would also ask a christian in Heavenn to pray for you.

But if that is the case, why would you not dialogue with the christians in Heaven? You dialogue with christians on earth.

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Ah, the presumption is if they can hear us we should be able to hear them.

Am not certain that follows as we do not normally "hear" demons, angels or other spirits. Angels and demons apparently have the ability to manifest themselves to us. Yet it seems also apparent the same can be here, unseen and unheard by us but they hear and observe.

So the notion that having the Saints offer our prayers to God as Saint John depicts in the Bible requires that not only that they can hear our requests but also that we should hear them seems refuted by the abilities of angels and demons themselves.

We do not know by what mechanism God allows them to hear our requests, only that they do and as Saint John wrote they offer those prayers up to God.

 

[Presentist]

Saint John depicts in the Bible requires that not only that they can hear our requests

I assume you are talking about the two instances in Revelation that mention "prayers of saints"; Revelation 5:8 and Revelation 8:3-4, correct?

Revelation 5:8 -- And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3-4 -- And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

Do you believe that the word "saints" in those passages is referring to the "patron saints" in Heaven?

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[DrBubbaLove]

We are all saints, including those in Heaven. One Body, One Kingdom does not compute if we see saints in Heaven as seperated from the rest of the Body. The saints in Heaven, are capitalized, Saints to make the distinction easier in writing.

Verse 5 shows elders having and offering prayers of the saints to God. So these are Saints, offering our prayers to God. Unless we are going to claim these elders stole our prayers to God, these Saints are shown interceding on our behalf to God with requests/prayers that they both heard/received.(Holy Mary, Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)

The second instance shows angels doing the same thing for saints, which would be Christians living here. So in both verses we have beings in Heaven interceding for people on earth, which requires that those requests are heard by those beings who then pray for us (offer our prayers to God).

 

[Presentist]

The second instance shows angels doing the same thing for saints, which would be Christians living here.

So Revelation 5:8 is the only verse that supposed shows patron saints passing along our prayers to God?

(Since you say the other passage has to do with angels.)

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[DrBubbaLove]

Does scripture indicate there is One Kingdom? One Body?
Does scripture call all of us (the One Body) to pray for one another?
Does scripture indicate that call ends at the end of this life?
Does scritprue indicate that we are no longer a part of the Body after this life?

How do the beings in Heaven get our prayers to be able to offer them up, if those requests were directed to them?

How do beings in Heaven receive our prayers (in order to then offer those prayers up) if they are not aware of our prayers?

If there is no intercession on the part of these beings which St John has offering up our prayers, then what are they doing?

If our prayers are only to be directly to God alone, why do these beings in Heaven have our prayers?

 

[Presentist]

If our prayers are only to be directly to God alone, why do these beings in Heaven have our prayers?

Those two passages in Revelation simply say "the prayers of the saints". They do not say "the prayers that some saints passed to other saints to forward for them".

I think you missed my question...

So Revelation 5:8 is the only verse that supposed shows patron saints passing along our prayers to God?

(Since you say the other passage has to do with angels.)

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[Thekla]

Those two passages in Revelation simply say "the prayers of the saints". They do not say "the prayers that some saints passed to other saints to forward for them".

I think you missed my question...

So Revelation 5:8 is the only verse that supposed shows patron saints passing along our prayers to God?

(Since you say the other passage has to do with angels.)

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"... fell before the lamb having each harps and bowls, golden, full of incenses, which are the prayers of the saints.


The bowls they hold are filled with the incenses/prayers of the saints (those set aside).

Saints are saints - whether in heaven or on earth, no ?

 

[Proctor]

What kind of a church do you attend? Roman Catholic?

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My denomination is No Denomination so far.
I am a new christian.
I have found my way to christianity after years of searching.

I do not as yet endorse any specific denomination of christianity.

I am just keeping a grip on the Trinity and Jesus. That is the bread and butter basics of the faith, so as to speak.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Those two passages in Revelation simply say "the prayers of the saints". They do not say "the prayers that some saints passed to other saints to forward for them".

I think you missed my question...

So Revelation 5:8 is the only verse that supposed shows patron saints passing along our prayers to God?

(Since you say the other passage has to do with angels.)

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Did not miss it, just did not answer as expected.

There is a difference between having a patron Saint and any Saint interceding for us in Heaven.
The greater and still ignored question for anyone saying we should only "pray to God" would be why Saint John has other beings in Heaven offering our prayers to Him.
An offering is something an individual gives, which means before he can give that offereing it must be something already possessed by that individual. So how does someone in Heaven possess the prayers of others?

If requesting someone in Heaven to pray for us is made up hundreds of years later, why is John casually mentioning the observation of the process in work?