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Do our Works count towards Salvation?

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mike1reynolds

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Remember the setting..Was the scriptures speaking to believers..The fruits of the Spirit are only available to believers in Christ..
Not true:
[bible]Romans 2:13-15[/bible]
[bible]1 john 4:7-8[/bible]


We can't be expected to "do " anything that will be judged till we repent...
You don't have to be any particular religion to repent and decide to be virtuous, compassionate and charitable.
 
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HisKid1973

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Not true:
[bible]Romans 2:13-15[/bible]
[bible]1 john 4:7-8[/bible]


You don't have to be any particular religion to repent and decide to be virtuous, compassionate and charitable.

You are correct..God is not willing that 'Any" perish but that all would come to repentance...But we know many will have a "form " of religion but not the Truth..K
 
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revduane

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It is heavily believed that we are saved by faith and works, but not faith alone. If this is the true case, then why do most Protestants stand so firm on the point that we are saved by faith alone? It's because it is Biblical that we are saved by faith, through grace, not faith with works. It has to be one or the other. It can't be both.

Faith and works are contrasted. In other words we are "Saved by Faith," not by works, or apart from works. So we are saved by faith alone, or we are not. Since we have faith and works, (both conceptually and in practice), then we are saved by faith alone, or by faith with works. There is no other option.

So if we see that in the Scriptures, that works are excluded in any form whatsoever as a means of Salvation, then logically we are saved by faith alone.

Romans 3:28-30..28.....For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29....Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes of Gentiles also. 30...Since indeed God will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

Romans 4:5....But to the one who DOES NOT WORK, but BELIEVES in Him who justifies the ungodly, his FAITH is RECKONED as RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Romans 5:1...Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 9:30....What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith.

Romans 10:4....For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes. (Works are never mentioned here).

Romans 11:6...But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Gal 2:16...Nevertheless. Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but through FAITH in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we may be JUSTIFIED by FAITH IN CHRIST, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:21...I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, the CHRIST DIED NEEDLESSLY.

Gal 3:5-6...Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?...6...Even so Abraham believed God, and it was RECKONED to him as RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Gal 3:24...Therefore the Law has become our tutor, to lead us to Christ, that WE MAY BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

Eph 2:8-9...For by GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. NOT BY WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.

Phil 3:9...And may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is though faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God on the BASIS of FAITH.

The Scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by FAITH in Christ, and what He has done on the Cross. This faith alone saves us. However we can't stop here without addressing what James says in (James 2:24)...You see that a man is justified by works and not faith alone.

There is no contradiction. All you need do is look at the context. James Chapter 2 has 26 verses. Verses 1-7 instruct us to not show favoritism. Verses 8-13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.

James begins this section by using the example of someone who SAYS he has faith but has no works. "What use is it my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but has no works. Can that faith save him?" In others words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith, that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncment, a public confession of the mind, and is not heart felt. It is empty of life and action. He begins with a negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions). Then he shows that type of faith that isn't any different from the faith of demons (verse 19) Finally. He gives examples of living faith, that has words followed by actions. Works follow true faith, and demonstrate that faith to our fellow man, but not to God. (The only way to please God is by faith) James writes of Abraham, and Rahab as examples of people that demonstrated their faith by their deeds.

James is examining two different kinds of faith. One that leads to Godly works, and one that does not. One is true and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive, hence, "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:20). But he is not contradicting the verses above that say salvation/justification is by faith alone.

Also notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Romans 4:3..amongst a host of verses that deals with justification by faith only. JAMES 2:23 says...and the scripture was fulfilled which says, " And Abraham believed God it was reckoned to him as righteousness." If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works, than the other NT writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone, and that James was really talking about false faith, not real faith when he said, "We are not justified by faith alone."
 
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mike1reynolds

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Rev, you didn't read his whole message:

We will be judged eternally by works alone: Revelation 20:12,13

He is saying that faith is the initial push, but works alone get you the rest of the way.
 
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PaulAckermann

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If works had anything to do with it, the robber that Jesus said would be in paradise with him was screwed over and lied to, since he didn't have a chance from that point until his death to do any works.

That is not true. First of all, stood up for Jesus when he be mocked by the other one who was being crucified. That is a good work. Second, he thought more of heaven that his his immediate suffering. Thinking on heavenly things is a good work. He prayed to (asked) Christ to remember him when he gets to heaven. Prayer is a very good work. At that short time between his conversion and his death, he did more good works than many produce in a lifetime.


Also, that would make a liar out of our Lord and the Bible in many places.

It would make Christ a liar if we were saved by faith aone. No where in the Bible does it say that we are saved by faith alone - except in James 2. And in that passage, it says we are NOT saved by faith alone.



A lot of people confuse James as thinking that works save us. This is a critical misinterpretation. Works are the evidence of our faith, but do not replace our faith.

That is reading your own theology into the passage. Nowhere in James does he say that works is merely the evidence of our faith.

And besides, why would God need to see outward evidence of our inner faith? God is all-knowing, he can see our hearts. God has no need of evidence. To God, if all that is needed is our inner faith, He can see our hearts to see that we have that inner faith, without the need of looking at works.

They do not save us, but are one of the ways we show that we are Christ's to the world. If you've ever heard the Newsboys song Shine that's exactly what they are talking about.

I thought we are to base our doctrine on the Bible, not a gospel-singing group.


I believe there is also a verse in the Bible that says that our good works will be like crowns in Heaven that we get to lay at Jesus feet when we worship Him. On the other hand, those who don't have any good works to show for their faith are saved, but only as if they have escaped a fire.

Christians going through fire? You mean as in - Purgatory?
 
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mike1reynolds

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Then the issue becomes whether or not some grace is earned or all grace is unearned. I don't think the Bible supports the later contention, if you get into the original linguistics of the Greek and Hebrew. In some places it refers to unearned grace, and in other place grace is being referred to as the product of actions and virtue. Catholics call this actual grace vs. sanctified grace. I think that this interpretation is 100% scriptural.

Grace just shifts the emphasis a little, but it is still basically the same dispute.
 
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