Do not bear a burden on the Sabbath day

[tonychanyt]

Jeremiah 17:

21 Thus says the LORD: Take care for the sake of your lives, and do not bear a burden on the Sabbath day or bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem. 22And do not carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath or do any work, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your fathers.

But then, Jesus healed an invalid (V1) on the Sabbath day in John 5:

8Jesus said to him, “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.” 9And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.

There were three issues here:

1. Jesus worked on the Sabbath.
2. Jesus told the V1 to work on the Sabbath.
3. V1 worked on the Sabbath.

Now that day was the Sabbath. 10So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.”

According to the Jews, V1 broke the Sabbath. He blamed the healer:

11But he answered them, “The man who healed me, that man said to me, ‘Take up your bed, and walk.’” 12They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?” 13Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place. 14Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.” 15The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. 16And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath.

They charged Jesus for breaking the Sabbath.

17But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

Jesus' defense antagonized them even more:

18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

The Jews understood that Jesus claimed that he could break the Sabbath because he was equal with God.

Jesus continued his defense:

27 "And he [the Father] has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man."

Elsewhere in Matthew 12, Jesus said:

8 "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Jesus had authority on earth to break the Sabbath and tell V1 to break the Sabbath and V1's breaking the Sabbath was okay according to Jesus.

 

[All Becomes New]

I would find it strange that the Pharisees got it right that Christ said he was God but got it wrong that he broke the Sabbath.

That verse from Jeremiah is also very telling.

 

[tonychanyt]

I would find it strange that the Pharisees got it right that Christ said he was God but got it wrong that he broke the Sabbath.

Right, that's an interesting point.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Jeremiah 17:

Jeremiah 17:

21 Thus says the LORD: Take care for the sake of your lives, and do not bear a burden on the Sabbath day or bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem. 22And do not carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath or do any work, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your fathers.

Jehovah commanded the Jews, for the sake of their lives, to not bear a burden of the Sabbath day. This is an extreme command. You could lose your life for carrying a burden on the Sabbath day? Here is the command, from the NASB 1995 version of the Bible, in context:

The Sabbath Must Be Kept​

19 Thus the Lord said to me, “Go and stand in the [i]public gate, through which the kings of Judah come in and go out, as well as in all the gates of Jerusalem; 20 and say to them, ‘Listen to the word of the Lord, kings of Judah, and all Judah and all inhabitants of Jerusalem who come in through these gates: 21 Thus says the Lord, “Take heed for yourselves, and do not carry any load on the sabbath day or bring anything in through the gates of Jerusalem. 22 You shall not bring a load out of your houses on the sabbath day nor do any work, but keep the sabbath day holy, as I commanded your [j]forefathers. 23 Yet they did not listen or incline their ears, but stiffened their necks in order not to listen or take correction.


24 “But it will come about, if you listen attentively to Me,” declares the Lord, “to bring no load in through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but to keep the sabbath day holy by doing no work on it, 25 then there will come in through the gates of this city kings and princes sitting on the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they and their princes, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and this city will be inhabited forever. 26 They will come in from the cities of Judah and from the environs of Jerusalem, from the land of Benjamin, from the lowland, from the hill country and from the Negev, bringing burnt offerings, sacrifices, grain offerings and incense, and bringing sacrifices of thanksgiving to the house of the Lord. 27 But if you do not listen to Me to keep the sabbath day holy by not carrying a load and coming in through the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day, then I will kindle a fire in its gates and it will devour the palaces of Jerusalem and not be quenched.”’”


TONY CHAN
But then, Jesus healed an invalid (V1) on the Sabbath day in John 5:

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Jehovah's commandment regarding the Sabbath was extreme to say the least. In the Torah, a man was put to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. But Jesus was God and he had the authority to set the Law aside if it was his will to do so. He was not only the Lord of the Sabbath, but he created it in Genesis 1. He could decide who could profane the Sabbath and who couldn't. The priests, Jesus said, profane the Sabbath yet they are BLAMELESS. The invalid couldn't have just left his bed behind when he left to go home so Jesus gave him special permission to profane the Sabbath.

TONY CHAN
There were three issues here:

1. Jesus worked on the Sabbath.
2. Jesus told the V1 to work on the Sabbath.
3. V1 worked on the Sabbath.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Who was the V1? The invalid? I haven't studied logic in 30-40 years and don't recall V1 as meaning anything. If V1 means the invalid then why not just say so? Not all of us have studied logic on the level you have so can you be helpful to us poor uneducated fools and speak in a language we can understand? You have nothing to prove to me, I believe you know more about logic than I do so you don't have anything to prove to me.

TONY CHAN
According to the Jews, V1 broke the Sabbath. He blamed the healer:

They charged Jesus for breaking the Sabbath.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Jesus didn't break the Sabbath the Jews, desperate to nail anything they could on Jesus blamed him for breaking the Sabbath. All Jesus did was command the man to break the Sabbath. Like the priests who profane the Sabbath yet are blameless, the man was following God's orders and so even though he profaned the Sabbath he was blameless.

TONY CHAN
Jesus' defense antagonized them even more:

The Jews understood that Jesus claimed that he could break the Sabbath because he was equal with God.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The Pharisees did not believe Jesus to be God and they were always looking for some excuse to stone him. So they didn't like that Jesus ovverrode their authority on what was breaking the Sabbath and what was not.

TONY CHAN
Jesus continued his defense:

Elsewhere in Matthew 12, Jesus said:

Jesus had authority on earth to break the Sabbath and tell V1 to break the Sabbath and V1's breaking the Sabbath was okay according to Jesus.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Jesus had authority to break the Sabbath anytime he wanted to because he was God and had the final say in what could be considered breaking the Sabbath and what couldn't be breaking the Law. The Pharisees and the Sadducees hated Jesus because he contradicted them publicly and they were afraid that Jesus would cause the Roman empire to come down on them hard if Jesus was given free reign to stir up the people. Sorry for putting it this way, but Jesus was ABOVE THE LAW. As a physical Jew, he was subject to the law of Moses but in his deity he could override the Law if he saw a need to. Most of the time Jesus sought to keep the Law as commanded in the Old Testament.

 

[tonychanyt]

If V1 means the invalid then why not just say so?

It is a short-hand notation.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

It is a short-hand notation.

What does the V stand for in logic? What does the 1 mean in logic? Does the 1 stand for proposition 1? If so, why is it V and not P?

 

[tonychanyt]

What does the V stand for in logic? What does the 1 mean in logic? Does the 1 stand for proposition 1? If so, why is it V and not P?

V1 together is treated as a symbol, v subscript 1. It is a common practice in math.

 

[Gary K]

Jeremiah 17:


But then, Jesus healed an invalid (V1) on the Sabbath day in John 5:


There were three issues here:

1. Jesus worked on the Sabbath.
2. Jesus told the V1 to work on the Sabbath.
3. V1 worked on the Sabbath.

According to the Jews, V1 broke the Sabbath. He blamed the healer:

They charged Jesus for breaking the Sabbath.

Jesus' defense antagonized them even more:

The Jews understood that Jesus claimed that he could break the Sabbath because he was equal with God.

Jesus continued his defense:


Elsewhere in Matthew 12, Jesus said:


Jesus had authority on earth to break the Sabbath and tell V1 to break the Sabbath and V1's breaking the Sabbath was okay according to Jesus.

Maybe it would do you good to look at the context of Jeremiah 17. Judah had apostatized during Jeremiah's day. They were conducting everyday business on the Sabbath. Thus the burdens they were bringing into the city were commercial loads meant for making money, and the same goes for what they were taking out of their homes.

Jer 17:22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.
Jer 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.
Jer 17:24 And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein;

Jesus told the lame man to take up his bed and walk. That isn't exactly a burden because the man wouldn't have had a box spring and mattress, He would have had a light mat or blanket under him.

Maybe you need to read the Talmud so you can understand what the Pharisees actually believed about keeping the Sabbath. They had hundreds of rules concerning the Sabbath.

 

[tonychanyt]

Maybe it would do you good to look at the context of Jeremiah 17. Judah had apostatized during Jeremiah's day. They were conducting everyday business on the Sabbath. Thus the burdens they were bringing into the city were commercial loads meant for making money, and the same goes for what they were taking out of their homes.



Jesus told the lame man to take up his bed and walk. That isn't exactly a burden because the man wouldn't have had a box spring and mattress, He would have had a light mat or blanket under him.

Maybe you need to read the Talmud so you can understand what the Pharisees actually believed about keeping the Sabbath. They had hundreds of rules concerning the Sabbath.

I am not sure what your point is. Can you quote my words and contradict them?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jeremiah 17:


But then, Jesus healed an invalid (V1) on the Sabbath day in John 5:


There were three issues here:

1. Jesus worked on the Sabbath.
2. Jesus told the V1 to work on the Sabbath.
3. V1 worked on the Sabbath.

According to the Jews, V1 broke the Sabbath. He blamed the healer:

They charged Jesus for breaking the Sabbath.

Jesus' defense antagonized them even more:

The Jews understood that Jesus claimed that he could break the Sabbath because he was equal with God.

Jesus continued his defense:


Elsewhere in Matthew 12, Jesus said:


Jesus had authority on earth to break the Sabbath and tell V1 to break the Sabbath and V1's breaking the Sabbath was okay according to Jesus.

You cannot understand the NT scriptures on God's holy Sabbath day if you do not understand His Sabbath. There is a difference between the sabbath of the Pharisees and the Sabbath in the commandment of God.

Most non-Sabbath keepers tend to believe the sabbath of the Pharisees over the very Words of Jesus who said He kept the commandments John 15:10 and is sinless. John 8:46-47 2 1 Peter 2:22

Siding with the Pharisees you are in the same company with those who crucified Jesus and accused Him of breaking the Sabbath and sinning and accused Him of not being God.

 

[tonychanyt]

You cannot understand the NT scriptures on God's holy Sabbath day if you do not understand His Sabbath.

What makes you think that I do not understand His Sabbath? Please quote my words to prove your point.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What makes you think that I do not understand His Sabbath? Please quote my words to prove your point.

Anyone who thinks Jesus violated the Sabbath or changed it to accommodate Him or His disciples does not understand the passages in the NT about the Sabbath.

Jesus never broke the Sabbath,
The disciples never broke the Sabbath

There is no sin in healing people on God's Sabbath
No sin teaching God's Word on God's Sabbath
No sin to eat on God's Sabbath
Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13

Jesus and the disciples violated the sabbath of the Pharisees as they were adding lots of their rules to the commandments of God. Jesus taught by example, not by commanding others to do one thing and a different standard for Him or His disciples. This goes against the Word of God. Hebrews 4:15 and make Jesus a hypocrite, which He is not.

To use this as a reason to not keep the Sabbath commandment, because you claim Jesus didn't keep it is siding with the Pharisees over the very Words of Jesus. John 15:10 John 8:46-47

 

[tonychanyt]

Anyone who thinks Jesus violated the Sabbath or changed it to accommodate Him or His disciples does not understand the passages in the NT about the Sabbath.

You keep putting words into my mouth. That's a bad habit. Please quote my words to prove your point.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You keep putting words into my mouth. That's a bad habit. Please quote my words to prove your point.

I actually wasn't speaking about anyone specifically; The words "anyone who thinks"' I was hoping should have clarified.

That said- you seemed to have indicated Jesus broke the Sabbath here Did Jesus break the Sabbath? and claims Jesus said He did, which is completely false. Doing the ways of the Lord on the Sabbath is not profaning the Sabbath commandment. Isa 58:13 The work of Jesus is not secular work. You claimed Jesus is above the law that He gave which makes Him a God of - do as I tell, not as I do, which is a contradiction to the reality of the situation Hebrews 4:15, John 15:10, John 8:46-47 1 Pet 2:22 and in agreement with the very people who Crucified Him without cause.

 

[tonychanyt]

I actually wasn't speaking about anyone specifically; The words "anyone who thinks"' I was hoping should have clarified.

That said- you seemed to have indicated Jesus broke the Sabbath here Did Jesus break the Sabbath? and claims Jesus said He did, which is completely false.

For the 3rd time, please quote my words to prove your point in your next reply.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

For the 3rd time, please quote my words to prove your point in your next reply.

This is your post Did Jesus break the Sabbath?

Question: Did Jesus break the Sabbath?

From a human perspective, I think he did. Exodus 31:
14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Did Jesus work on the Sabbath?

Jesus admitted he did, John 5:
>16 this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

There were exceptions. The temple priests also worked, Numbers 28:
9 On the Sabbath day, make an offering of two lambs a year old without defect, together with its drink offering and a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of the finest flour mixed with olive oil.

Did Jesus advocate for everyone to work on the Sabbath?

No.

Did Jesus break the Sabbath?

Some Jews thought he did:
>18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking [G3089] the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Did Jesus sin on the Sabbath?

No, Matthew 12:
>11 He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

Did Jesus abolish the Sabbath?

No, Matthew 5:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Did Jesus break the Sabbath?

I don't think the question applies to Jesus. Even if he did, he had not sinned, Matthew 12:
5 have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane [H953] the Sabbath and are guiltless? 6 I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. 7 And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Jesus was above the Sabbath law. He had the authority on earth to command an invalid to pick up his mat and walk (John 5:8) and to allow his disciples to pick heads of grain and eat them on a Sabbath day (Matthew 12:1).


Jesus did not break the Sabbath commandment- He broke the sabbath of the Pharasees. Jesus does not operate as Do as I say, not as I do. Jesus is our example to follow 1 John 2:6 who in His own Words said He kept all of the commandments John 15:10 and could not be our Savior or example had He broke one tittle of the law.

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

 

[tonychanyt]

This is your post Did Jesus break the Sabbath?

Question: Did Jesus break the Sabbath?

From a human perspective, I think he did. Exodus 31:
14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Did Jesus work on the Sabbath?

Jesus admitted he did, John 5:
>16 this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

There were exceptions. The temple priests also worked, Numbers 28:
9 On the Sabbath day, make an offering of two lambs a year old without defect, together with its drink offering and a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of the finest flour mixed with olive oil.

Did Jesus advocate for everyone to work on the Sabbath?

No.

Did Jesus break the Sabbath?

Some Jews thought he did:
>18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking [G3089] the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Did Jesus sin on the Sabbath?

No, Matthew 12:
>11 He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

Did Jesus abolish the Sabbath?

No, Matthew 5:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Did Jesus break the Sabbath?

I don't think the question applies to Jesus. Even if he did, he had not sinned, Matthew 12:
5 have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane [H953] the Sabbath and are guiltless? 6 I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. 7 And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Jesus was above the Sabbath law. He had the authority on earth to command an invalid to pick up his mat and walk (John 5:8) and to allow his disciples to pick heads of grain and eat them on a Sabbath day (Matthew 12:1).


Jesus did not break the Sabbath commandment- He broke the sabbath of the Pharasees. Jesus does not operate as Do as I say, not as I do. Jesus is our example to follow 1 John 2:6 who in His own Words said He kept all of the commandments John 15:10 and could not be our Savior or example had He broke one tittle of the law.

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

So where did I assert your claim? I don't see it. To help my slowness, this is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making. No need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole chapter.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So where did I assert your claim? I don't see it. To help my slowness, this is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making. No need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole chapter.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it

I bolded the areas in your post.

 

[tonychanyt]

I bolded the areas in your post.

This is the 5th time I am asking you to quote my words precisely, laser-focused.

So where did I assert your claim? I don't see it. To help my slowness, this is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making. No need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole chapter.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is the 5th time I am asking you to quote my words precisely, laser-focused.

So where did I assert your claim? I don't see it. To help my slowness, this is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making. No need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole chapter.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it

I quoted your entire post. I am not required to model my posting style after yours nor is everyone else, but if this wish to, that can be their choice. I am comfortable with my style of posting.