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Do Methodists believe in any of the "Sola's?"

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GraceSeeker

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Here is another question that has been recently put to me: Do Methodists believe in any of the "Sola's?"


At first I thought I could provide a rather simple straight forward, then I got into it a bit more. So, I thought maybe the reflection of a few more Methodists might be of some value.

If you are not familiar with all of the "solas", and I have to admit I rarely talk about them unless asked, here is the list as provided by Wikipedia:
  • Sola gratia (by grace alone)
  • Sola fide (by faith alone)
  • Sola scriptura (by Scripture alone)
  • Solus Christus (in Christ alone)
  • Soli Deo gloria (Glory to God alone)
 

GraceSeeker

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Well, let me start this by addressing the one I hear talked about the most: sola scriptura.

Do Methodists accept this? No.

The Methodist position is much closer to prima scripture (Scripture first).

Methodists believe that scripture must be read in context, and then understood, interpreted and applied in the light of tradition, reason, and experience. These four -- Scripture, Tradition, Reason, And Experience (aka, the Wesleyan Quadrilateral) -- undergird the Christian's view of the world and guide us in our response to it, both in theology and praxis.

http://www.umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.2310045/k.4A66/Reflecting_on_Our_Faith.htm

I have been in a long running discussion (ok, argument) with several Catholics who have always wanted to automatically paint me as "sola scriptura" because that is how this particular group see all protestants. Yesterday I called one of this group on her own use of scripture because she referenced what she called the "raw data" as being the source of all beliefs and not excepting anything that wasn't built from it. I suggested that she was herself using a "sola scriptura" approach. I found her response interesting:
Obviously, the raw data doesn't stand by itself - it is interpreted through rituals, writings, hymns, and various bits of lore, some of which (like the Bible, the doctrine of the Trinity, or the Nicene Creed) didn't come into existence until centuries later - but they can be traced back in an authentically organic manner to the Holy Tradition.
While I disagree with some of the interpretations of that data set by the Catholic church, the process itself is one that I personally concur with.
 
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GraceSeeker

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I knew Methodists weren't sola scriptura. I wonder about the others, though. Are you going to cover those also, GraceSeeker? I look forward to reading more. Thanks and God Bless :)


Maybe, but not till after Sunday. I hope others will chime in with their own comments. I'm not an expert on these sorts of things.
 
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ContraMundum

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It depends on how you understand "Sola Scriptura".

In one sense, Methodists are Sola Scriptura. I mean, in the sense that the Anglican "mother church" is, namely, that:

"The Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation".

This comment is shared in both the Anglican and the Methodist Articles of Religion.

In this sense Outler's "Wesleyan Quadrilateral" (an idea he gleaned from devout study of Wesley's works) has a parallel to the high Anglican exegetical tradition from which Wesley was hewn.

This means that reason, tradition and experience all inform the approach to and understanding of the Bible, but that anything they conclude not found in the Bible is not binding on the conscience of the Christian to believe as de fide.

One of the better defenses and explanations of this understanding, written by an Anglican but agreeable to the Methodist position is found here: http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/lutherantheology.kiefersolascriptura.html

It's a fair explanation of what the doctrine is intended to say and what it doesn't say as well.

I think the other Solas all fit well into the Methodist paradigm as well.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Well, it has taken me some time to respond to the rest of these points, and even now, I do not feel truly able to respond with a simple Yea or Nay. Yes, Methodist do believe in faith alone and grace alone. But yet, we do not believe in them in the same way that say a Calvinist would mean them. And so, perhaps I should say, "NO, we don't believe in those Reformed doctrines." You see my problem.

Let me illustrate by just giving my personal, not the "official" UMC nor certainly a John Wesley type of response by talking about grace and faith together:

Now certainly, I would affirm that one is saved by grace through faith. And I also affirm that none can come to the Father by through Christ. All of this sounds very typical of the great majority of at Protestant teaching whether Wesleyan or Calvinist or Lutheran, et. al. That is is because it is primarily evangelical, and that is something we all share. But let me press that a bit more. Grace is something that God does, not something that I do. So, must I believe? And to that I answer, an unreserved "NO!"

Now, before everyone is personall taken aback that a United Methodist pastor might say that one does not have to belief, let me explain. If I believe that God is sovereign, which I do, then it follows that God can do whatever God chooses to. God can damn and God can save anyone for any purpose that he elects to do so. Hence, it follows that God can save believers, and also that God (if he were to so choose) can save unbelievers just as easily. Why? Because it is not what we contribute, but God's unmerited favor that determines whether or not we are saved. If we can only be saved because we have come to faith, then it is no longer by grace alone.

For those who are still resistive, let me pose another question, by what faith is a new born infant saved should it die shortly after birth. To the best of my knowledge, the infant has no faith, and yet I hold that said infant is still saved, and if so, then by what means -- none other than the grace of God and the grace of God alone. This child is not saved by my faith, not by baptism, not by anything but that God has chosen to accept this child for no other reason than that he wills to do so. So, I do affirm that one is saved by grace alone. And I affirm it not only for that child but for all whom God would save. If God so choses, I believe that God can save an atheist just as easily and completely as God can save a new born infant. I believe this because I believe that God is sovereign and it is ridiculous to even attempt to assert who God can and cannot save.

So, does this mean that God goes about and willy-nilly picks some for salvation thus leaving others condemned to be left out in the cold (or the heat if you prefer that image)? No, I don't think so. For while I affirm that God could do so, I also read in the scriptures that he has chosen to act in ways that we can understand. I read in scripture that he has promised to save all who come to him in faith, trusting not in their righteousness but in the imputed righteousness of God in their lives. That at the moment of putting our trust in Christ to save us, God himself actually declares us righteous. Not that we truly are or have been made so, but that he chooses to overlook our sins, and counts them no more, preferring to instead count Christ's righteousness in our behalf.

Again, we are completely unworthy of this, even the crediting of this righteousness to us is an act of grace, justifying grace, but we have this guarantee from God that he will receive us thusly, and by faith we put our trust in him to do that. If we think that we cannot trust God to grant us this salvation without some effort or our own, whether it is by being baptized or doing good, then we are claiming that God is not capable again of saving us without some help or giving him some reaosn on our part. I do not believe this to be true. I believe that God needs no more motivation than that he chooses to save us. And so, we need only to trust in him (i.e. to have faith alone) and God will act to save us.

So our salvation is through faith alone, not by works. And in this way I do believe in faith alone. But, as I have said already, I also believe that because salvation is by totally an act of God's grace that God can (and perhaps even does) save those who have no faith. They too are saved and cleansed of their sins by Christ's action on the cross, for his atoning sacrifice was for the sins of the entire world, not just who would accept the gift, but it is a gift offered even to those who spurn it. And perhaps God, in his great grace, saves those who are seeking him or open to him, even if they do not recognize it is him. So, they don't put their faith in Christ, at least not actively, but nonetheless are saved by Christ's gracious action and thus united to the Father, even as they are unawares of the process by which this act of salvation might occur.

Thus, for me (and I will not say this is the teaching of all Methodists) because of how strongly I believe that salvation is by grace alone, I cannot say that it is through faith alone.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Now, I had this in my hand as I wrote the above post, but want to post it separately. Here are Welsey's own thoughts on what it meant to be an Arminain. You will see in it his own critique of the Reformed position, from which the 5 solas come:

The Question, "What Is an Arminian?" Answered by a Lover of Free Grace

by John Wesley



1. To say, "This man is an Arminian," has the same effect on many hearers, as to say, "This is a mad dog." It puts them into a fright at once: They run away from him with all speed and diligence; and will hardly stop, unless it be to throw a stone at the dreadful and mischievous animal.
2. The more unintelligible the word is, the better it answers the purpose. Those on whom it is fixed know not what to do: Not understanding what it means, they cannot tell what defence to make, or how to clear themselves from the charge. And it is not easy to remove the prejudice which others have imbibed, who know no more of it, than that it is "something very bad," if not "all that is bad!"
3. To clear the meaning, therefore, of this ambiguous term, may be of use to many: To those who so freely pin this name upon others, that they may not say what they do not understand; to those that hear them, that they may be no longer abused by men saying they know not what; and to those upon whom the name is fixed, that they may know how to answer for themselves.
4. It may be necessary to observe, First, that many confound Arminians with Arians. But this is entirely a different thing; the one has no resemblance to the other. An Arian is one who denies the Godhead of Christ; we scarce need say, the supreme, eternal Godhead; because there can be no God but the supreme, eternal God, unless we will make two Gods, a great God and a little one. Now, none have ever more firmly believed, or more strongly asserted, the Godhead of Christ, than many of the (so called) Arminians have done; yea, and do at this day. Arminianism therefore (whatever it be) is totally different from Arianism.
5. The rise of the word was this: JAMES HARMENS, in Latin, Jacobes Arminius, was first one of the Ministers of Amsterdam, and afterwards Professor of Divinity at Leyden. He was educated at Geneva; but in the year 1591 began to doubt of the principles which he had till then received. And being more and more convinced that they were wrong, when he was vested with the Professorship, he publicly taught what he believed the truth, till, in the year 1609, he died in peace. But a few years after his death, some zealous men with the Prince of Orange at their head, furiously assaulted all that held what were called his opinions; and having procured them to be solemnly condemned, in the famous Synod of Dort, (not so numerous or learned, but full as impartial, as the Council or Synod of Trent,) some were put to death, some banished, some imprisoned for life, all turned out of their employments, and made incapable of holding any office, either in Church or State.
6. The errors charged upon these (usually termed Arminians) by their opponents, are five: (1.) That they deny original sin; (2.) That they deny justification by faith; (3.) That they deny absolute predestination; (4.) That they deny the grace of God to be irresistible; and, (5.) That they affirm, a believer may fall from grace.
With regard to the two first of these charges, they plead, Not Guilty. They are entirely false. No man that ever lived, not John Calvin himself, ever asserted either original sin, or justification by faith, in more strong, more clear and express terms, than Arminius has done. These two points, therefore, are to be set out of the question: In these both parties agree. In this respect, there is not a hair's breadth difference between Mr. Wesley and Mr. Whitefield.
7. But there is an undeniable difference between the Calvinists and Arminians, with regard to the three other questions. Here they divide; the former believe absolute, the latter only conditional, predestination. The Calvinists hold, (1.) God has absolutely decreed, from all eternity, to save such and such persons, and no others; and that Christ died for these, and none else. The Arminians hold, God has decreed, from all eternity, touching all that have the written word, "He that believeth shall be saved: He that believeth not, shall be condemned:" And in order to this, "Christ died for all, all that were dead in trespasses and sins;" that is, for every child of Adam, since "in Adam all died."
8. The Calvinists hold, Secondly, that the saving grace of God is absolutely irresistible; that no man is any more able to resist it, than to resist the stroke of lightning. The Arminians hold, that although there may be some moments wherein the grace of God acts irresistibly, yet, in general, any man may resist, and that to his eternal ruin, the grace whereby it was the will of God he should have been eternally saved.
9. The Calvinists hold, Thirdly, that a true believer in Christ cannot possibly fall from grace. The Arminians hold, that a true believer may "make shipwreck of faith and a good conscience;" that he may fall, not only foully, but finally, so as to perish for ever.
10. Indeed, the two latter points, irresistible grace and infallible perseverance, are the natural consequence of the former, of the unconditional decree. For if God has eternally and absolutely decreed to save such and such persons, it follows, both that they cannot resist his saving grace, (else they might miss of salvation,) and that they cannot finally fall from that grace which they cannot resist. So that, in effect, the three questions come into one, "Is predestination absolute or conditional?" The Arminians believe, it is conditional; the Calvinists, that it is absolute.
11. Away, then, with all ambiguity! Away with all expressions which only puzzle the cause! Let honest men speak out, and not play with hard words which they do not understand. And how can any man know what Arminius held, who has never read one page of his writings? Let no man bawl against Arminians, till he knows what the term means; and then he will know that Arminians and Calvinists are just upon a level. And Arminians have as much right to be angry at Calvinists, as Calvinists have to be angry at Arminians. John Calvin was a pious, learned, sensible man; and so was James Harmens. Many Calvinists are pious, learned, sensible men; and so are many Arminians. Only the former hold absolute predestination; the latter, conditional.
12. One word more: Is it not the duty of every Arminian Preacher, First, never, in public or in private, to use the word Calvinist as a term of reproach; seeing it is neither better nor worse than calling names? -- a practice no more consistent with good sense or good manners, than it is with Christianity. Secondly. To do all that in him lies to prevent his hearers from doing it, by showing them the sin and folly of it? And is it not equally the duty of every Calvinist Preacher, First, never in public or in private, in preaching or in conversation, to use the word Arminian as a term of reproach? Secondly. To do all that in him lies to prevent his hearers from doing it, by showing them the sin and folly thereof; and that the more earnestly and diligently, if they have been accustomed so to do? perhaps encouraged therein by his own example!


(From the Thomas Jackson edition of The Works of John Wesley, 1872.)​


What set Wesley apart from the Reformed tradition was his view on divine grace without which man was lost. He read the Bible and the church fathers to mean that God has bestowed upon all people a prevenient grace (a grace that goes before) that empowers each and every individual to accept or reject Christ. This led him to assert that Christ’s death had atoned for all people and those who resisted this grace were the ones who were lost. Accordingly, a Christian could lose their salvation.

With respect to salvation, Wesley sees it wholly as a work of God and available to all even apart from the preached Gospel. He believed that the pagan could obey the moral light within him. Therefore the pagan was not lost because by the natural light they could obey what they know.

Reformed theologian, J. I. Packer has observed, “Where the Arminian says ‘I owe my election to my faith,” the Calvinist says ‘I owe my faith to my election.” Wesley taught that the ability to cooperate with God is through the “free gift of of prevenient grace, given to all men as a first benefit of the universal atonement made by Christ fro all men.”# Therefore, because of of the free gift of grace no one is condemned eternally because of original sin or consequences. “Man is not now condemned for the depravity of his own nature, although that depravity is of the essence of sin; its culpability we maintain, was removed by the free gift in Christ. Man is condemned solely for his own transgressions.

Wesley defined justification as “a pardon, the forgiveness of sins” and saw imputed righteousness as implying antinominanism. So for Wesley when is born again an actual change inside a person. “Justification implies only a relative, the new birth a real, change. God in justifying us does something for us; in begetting us again, he does the work in us. The former changes our outward relation to God so that instead of enemies we become children; by the later our inmost souls are changes, so that instead of sinners we become saints.” The United Methodist Church takes this and says of prevenient grace, “This grace prompts our first wish to please God, our first glimmer of understanding concerning God’s will, and our ‘first slight transient conviction’ of having sinned against God.”

Wesley urged his followers to warn the Calvinists “against making void that solemn decree of God, ‘without holiness no man shall see the Lord,’ by a vain imagination of being holy in Christ. O warn them that if they remain unrighteous, the righteousness of Christ will profit them nothing.” Wesley resisted the doctrine of perpetual justification, upon condition of one act of faith, and maintained that the saints as well as sinners are condemned whenever they sin.
 
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ContraMundum

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Pastor, how would you say that the faith of infants would effect your understanding?

Many Christians believe that infants do have faith. For example, John the Baptiser leapt with joy in the womb of Elizabeth in the mere presence of Jesus, and also Jesus, when presented with children (Gk brephe- infants) said that they "believed" in Him.

If one agreed that an infant could have faith- just not reason- would that effect your position?

Love your work, incidentaly.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Now let me turn to the last two solas:

again taken from Wikipedia:
Solus Christus ("In Christ alone")

Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and there is salvation through no other (hence, the phrase is sometimes rendered in the ablative case, solo Christo, meaning that salvation is "by Christ alone"). While rejecting all other mediators between God and man, classical Lutheranism continues to honor the memory of the Virgin Mary and other exemplary saints. This principle rejects "sacerdotalism," which is the belief that there are no sacraments in the church without the services of priests ordained by apostolic succession under the authority of the pope. Martin Luther taught the "general priesthood of the baptized," which was modified in later Lutheranism and classical Protestant theology into "the priesthood of all believers," denying the exclusive use of the title "priest" (Latin, sacerdos) to the clergy. This principle does not deny the office of the holy ministry to which is committed the public proclamation of the Gospel and the administration of the sacraments. In this way, Luther in his Small Catechism could speak of the role of "a confessor" to confer sacramental absolution on a penitent. The section in this catechism known as "The Office of the Keys" (not written by Luther but added with his approval) identifies the "called ministers of Christ" as being the ones who exercise the binding and loosing of absolution and excommunication through Law and Gospel ministry. This is laid out in the Lutheran formula of holy absolution: the "called and ordained servant of the Word" forgives penitents' sins (speaks Christ's words of forgiveness: "I forgive you all your sins") without any addition of penances or satisfactions and not as an interceding or mediating "priest," but "by virtue of [his] office as a called and ordained servant of the Word" and "in the stead and by the command of [his] Lord Jesus Christ" [The Lutheran Hymnal, (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1941), p. 16]. In this tradition absolution reconciles the penitent with God directly through faith in Christ's forgiveness rather than with the priest and the church as mediating entities between the penitent and God.

Soli Deo gloria ("Glory to God alone")

All glory is due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through his will and action—not only the gift of the all-sufficient atonement of Jesus on the cross but also the gift of faith in that atonement, created in the heart of the believer by the Holy Spirit. The reformers believed that human beings—even saints canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, the popes, and the ecclesiastical hierarchy—are not worthy of the glory that was accorded them.
I believe the following conversation which took place between Wesley and Charles Simeon helps gives us insight into Wesley's view with regard to the concept of "Christ alone." It is Simeon who preserved an account of the conversation, dated December 20, 1784:
Simeon: Sir, I understand that you are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers. But before I consent to begin the combat, with your permission I will ask you a few questions.... Pray, Sir, do you feel yourself a depraved creature, so depraved that you would never have thought of turning to God, if God had not first put it into your heart?​


Wesley: Yes, says the veteran, I do indeed. And do you utterly despair of recommending yourself to God by anything you can do; and look for salvation solely through the blood and righteousness of Christ?​


Simeon: Yes, solely through Christ. But, Sir, supposing you were at first saved by Christ, are you not somehow or other to save yourself afterwards by your own works?​


Wesley: No, I must be saved by Christ from first to last. Allowing, then, that you were first turned by the grace of God, are you not in some way or other to keep yourself by your own power?​


Simeon: No. What, then, are you to be upheld every hour and every moment by God, as much as an infant in its mother's arms?​


Wesley: Yes, altogether. And is all your hope in the grace and mercy of God to preserve you unto His heavenly kingdom?​


Simeon: Yes, I have no hope but in Him. Then, Sir, with your leave I will put up my dagger again; for this is all my Calvinism; this is my election, my justification by faith, my final perseverance: it is in substance all that I hold and as I hold it; and therefore, if you please, instead of searching out terms and phrases to be a ground of contention between us, we will cordially unite in those things wherein we agree.​



For Wesley, a key to understanding salvation was that it was a call to Holiness, it could be instantaneous, though its normal experiences was progressive until one reached Christian perfection. Such perfection was to become perfect in love, not perfectly absent the effects and realities of sin. Such glory as holiness was the goal, an achievable goal in Wesley's mind, of all who had been saved by God's grace. There are probably those who hold to a Reformed theology that would take exception to what Wesley said as being impossible. But I don't think that Wesley would himself see it as being in contradistinction to the idea of "Glory to God alone".​
 
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GraceSeeker

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Pastor, how would you say that the faith of infants would effect your understanding?

Many Christians believe that infants do have faith. For example, John the Baptiser leapt with joy in the womb of Elizabeth in the mere presence of Jesus, and also Jesus, when presented with children (Gk brephe- infants) said that they "believed" in Him.

If one agreed that an infant could have faith- just not reason- would that effect your position?

Love your work, incidentaly.

Q: "If one agreed that an infant could have faith- just not reason- would that effect your position?"
A: No, because I seem to be able to hold two contrary opinions in my head at the same time.

Though I intentionally did not mention it, as I understand that it should effect my position, I already happen to hold a view that God can communicate with all persons, even a baby in the womb, and thus it is possible for even the infant or the mentally retarded to have knowledge of God and respond accordingly.

I believe (and again this is my own thinking, not the "official" teaching of United Methodism) that we are each accountable only for that degree of faith of which we are capable of receiving. By this way of thinking, I believe that there are people who are exposed to the Gospel, that are nonetheless exposed in such a way that they are not able to receive it. For that reason, I don't think that merely shoving a Jesus tract into a person's hands makes them culpable before God of rejecting the truth with regard to Jesus if they don't accept Christ thereafter. I am not a universalist in saying this, for I do believe that there are those who knowingly reject Christ and refuse his gift of salvation. But I think there are many others who reject a Christ they don't know, and in responding to what little they do know of God end up being accepted by God for that little faith which they do possess and are thus also saved by the work of Christ on the cross, all though the experience of salvation is unknown to them in this life and awaits them only at the last judgment when Christ separates the sheep from the goats and he claims them as his own.
 
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Qyöt27

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I believe (and again this is my own thinking, not the "official" teaching of United Methodism) that we are each accountable only for that degree of faith of which we are capable of receiving. By this way of thinking, I believe that there are people who are exposed to the Gospel, that are nonetheless exposed in such a way that they are not able to receive it. For that reason, I don't think that merely shoving a Jesus tract into a person's hands makes them culpable before God of rejecting the truth with regard to Jesus if they don't accept Christ thereafter. I am not a universalist in saying this, for I do believe that there are those who knowingly reject Christ and refuse his gift of salvation. But I think there are many others who reject a Christ they don't know, and in responding to what little they do know of God end up being accepted by God for that little faith which they do possess and are thus also saved by the work of Christ on the cross, all though the experience of salvation is unknown to them in this life and awaits them only at the last judgment when Christ separates the sheep from the goats and he claims them as his own.
Very eloquently said. I've thought off and on of some way of voicing my own thoughts on the issue (moreso than just falling back on the title of Age of Accountability or saying it's a different take thereof) and this sums it up perfectly.
 
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Redheadedstepchild

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OK, first off let me just say that most of this convo is over my head. But let me post some random thoughts and see what comes of it... (and I apologize for chopping up your posts)

Now certainly, I would affirm that one is saved by grace through faith. And I also affirm that none can come to the Father by through Christ.

If we can only be saved because we have come to faith, then it is no longer by grace alone.

OK, I think I'm with you here. I believe that grace brings us to faith, but I also believe that we must have faith to the extent we are able, so then it's grace alone that brings us to faith and that faith through grace that we are saved. Further, I understand our ability to be obedient and persue holiness as a response to salvation (again through grace), rather than as a work to ensure it. Which brings me to...

For Wesley, a key to understanding salvation was that it was a call to Holiness, it could be instantaneous, though its normal experiences was progressive until one reached Christian perfection. Such perfection was to become perfect in love, not perfectly absent the effects and realities of sin. Such glory as holiness was the goal, an achievable goal in Wesley's mind, of all who had been saved by God's grace. There are probably those who hold to a Reformed theology that would take exception to what Wesley said as being impossible. But I don't think that Wesley would himself see it as being in contradistinction to the idea of "Glory to God alone".

(emphasis mine)

I'm veering off track a bit. I'm not sure how holiness would be a "contradistinction to the idea of 'Glory to God alone,'" so I can't speak to that. I am one of those who has a hard time with the idea of Christian Perfection within one's lifetime. I feel as long as I am tied to my flesh I will struggle with sin, though I acknowledge the presence of the Holy Spirit working within me with these struggles. It helps to understand holiness as perfect love rather than the absence of sin (which is why the emphasis), after all sin is in effect the results of our own selfish desires which are antithetical to love. So, if I'm understanding correctly holiness is a call to respond with love to the impulses of our own sinful nature. But is perfection obtainable?:confused:

Back on track now, I would agree that Methodists do agree with the last 2 Solas as I understand them.
 
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