Do Jews go to Heaven?

[Cait]

I am having this discussion in my Bible study, and we could not think of any answer for this question. It says in the Bible that only those who believe in Him go to heaven, since the Jews reject Him as the Messiah, what happens to them? Do they go to Hell? But they are God's chosen people..so you can see it goes round and round..need an immediate solution!

 

[Athlon4all]

I would study (and I confess I haven't, and I should) Romans 9-11. Paul talks a lot about Israel in those chapters, and there is an alarmingly increasing amount of ingnorance regarding Israel in the church. It remains that Jesus is the way...and no man comes to the father except through Him but I would really encourage you to look at Romans 9-11 on your own.

 

[EPHRIAM777]

I am having this discussion in my Bible study, and we could not think of any answer for this question. It says in the Bible that only those who believe in Him go to heaven, since the Jews reject Him as the Messiah, what happens to them? Do they go to Hell? But they are God's chosen people..so you can see it goes round and round..need an immediate solution! [/B]


Eph says...

Well WE know that Jews don't get a "free pass" to Heaven...nor do they recieve a "get out of hell free card"...because they were born a Jew...!

EVERYBODY including them...have only one way to "make it"...and that is through FAITH in the shed blood of Jesus Christ...!

Now Jews prior to Christ's death are under the OLD Covenant..so their in a different catigory...as are the Hebrews of olden days...like Abraham...Isaac and Jacob....!

But "Jews of today"...that reject Jesus Christ....are as lost as any Muslim..or Hindu...or whatever...!

They need Christ..or they are Lost...! There is no "special pass" for them or anyone else..!

BTW....WE as Christians...aren't to judge them to the fires of hell...WE are to preach the Gosple to them just as we do to ANY others..and let the Holy Spirit do the rest...!

We are to "warn" them and others of what their future looks like...without Christ..but we don't ever judge anyone to hell....That is Gods job alone to do...!

 

[Cait]

Thanks a lot for the replies...but I'm still confused about something...so yup now I understand that they're considered just as lost as others of other religions and all...but Romans 11:26 says..."and all Israel will be saved..." so does that mean in the end all the Jews will be saved? How? are there any refrences in the Bible with a clearer description of what will happen to the Jews? anybody with a detailed explanation or opinion?

 

[seebs]

Well, let me butt in with a resounding "I don't know". Why do you need an *immediate* solution? Might it be possible to wait? It seems likely we'll find out soon enough.

Me, I guess, I trust God to sort this out with justice and mercy. The Bible says that at least one Jew was taken into Heaven; the Bible also says that at least some of the Pharisees didn't make the cut. I think that, if we look at the kinds of people God expresses approval of, and the kinds of people He chastises, we can form pretty good guesses... But in the end, you gotta trust Him.

 

[Cait]

sorry about the immediate thing...just that my bible study, we really want to find the answer...

 

[dnich163]

Jews are no different from anyone else.
They are like the rest of us, there is no place else to go.
I suggest that at the end of the day there is only one thing and that is God.
That is what this life journey we are on is about...returning to God.

David

 

[Theresa]

I would just like to suggest that there is a difference between rejecting and never having known. Just something to think on.

Theresa

 

[Outspoken]

as said before, according to Romans 9-11, yes those truely of the jewish faith to go to heaven. How or why? Even Paul doesn't know. I'll leave the how up to God for now

 

[Cait]

Great! that's a lot of help. thanks! i think i get it.

 

[EPHRIAM777]

Yesterday at 12:41 AM Cait said this in Post #4 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=645797#post645797)

Thanks a lot for the replies...but I'm still confused about something...so yup now I understand that they're considered just as lost as others of other religions and all...but Romans 11:26 says..."and all Israel will be saved..." so does that mean in the end all the Jews will be saved? How? are there any refrences in the Bible with a clearer description of what will happen to the Jews? anybody with a detailed explanation or opinion?


Eph writes...

WELL what you just did was use Israel...and Jew...as Synonyms...( words that mean the same thing )....

They don't mean the same thing..

I would give you a detailed explanation but you would need to do a serious amount of study on it...and thats not gonna happen on this thread...sorry...!

Just remember this...There was a Kingdom of ISRAEL and a Kingdom of Judah...they were seperate kingdoms...ruled "at times"..by different kings...Kinda like Egypt with upper and lower Pharoah's ruling at the same time..and sometimes 1 ruling both...!

When the BIBLE speaks of ALL Israel...it is speaking of the Kingdom of Israel AND Judah...When it says just Israel...it is speaking of the Kingdom of Israel..which was made up of mostly NON Jews...!

Look at 2 SAM 5:1:5.. for one example of what I'm trying to say here...



ALL the tribes of Israel came to David..in Hebron...Verse 2 then ONLY the Northern 10 tribes known as ISRAEL say to David YOU led us out and in...in battle..Verse 3 the elders of Israel come ( not Judah )..and made a league with David...and he was then made King over Israel... David was already ruling Judah as we'll see from the rest of the verses so no league had to be made with them..!

Verse 5 puts this all together...David was already King over the Kingdom of Judah for 7 years and six months at Hebron...Judah was a different seperate Kingdom distinct from the Kingdom of Israel....!

Then the verse goes ON to say David ruled BOTH ( both means ..plural..more than one )...from Jerusalem for 33 years..over ALL Israel AND Judah...So basically David united the tribes into ONE Kingdom...but they were still really 2 kingdoms just combined under his rule..!

See it..there..?

So when you read in the Bible...."Israel"..you have to know the context of how it's being used...! The JEWS came from the Kingdom of Judah and are descendants of Judah..not descendants of Israel...!

Thus...ALL Jews are Hebrews...and ALL Jews are Israelites..but not all Hebrews are Jews..and not all Israelites are Jews...

There is a difference..you can BE an Israelite and NOT be a Jew...The sons of Joseph were Israelites..but they weren't ever known or called Jews...!

There's WAYYYY more on all this in scripture...but that should get you started...!

When Paul spoke of "Israel"...he wasn't always speakig of the Jews...!

Plus..in REV 7 is where we find the 144,000...Notice there are only 12,000 "Jews" that are sealed...Only 12,000 from Judah...The rest are from """ALL"""" the tribes....see verse 4 and 5...!

knowing the truth does set you free....( especially from all the traditions of MEN that make void the word of God )...

BTW the Kingdom SPLIT after the death of Solomon..and went back to having different kings rule each seperately...These 2 kingdom even fought AGAINST each other according to the scriptures.....

Nowadays people use the words Jew and Israel to mean the same thing....because they're lazy and just mouth the words someone else said to them..mostly because they never go CHECK and see if it's true or not...!

But GOD always saw them as TWO seperate peoples...different and distinct from each other...Even while they were in bondage in Egypt...he saw them as seperate...!

 

[EPHRIAM777]

Yesterday at 06:41 PM Theresa said this in Post #8 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=647282#post647282)

I would just like to suggest that there is a difference between rejecting and never having known. Just something to think on.

Theresa



Eph asks...

Hey Theresa...who is that guy with the beard and the cool light on his chest...over where your avitar is...?

Is that an electric light he's using..or is he getting hit by somekind of Phaser type weapon...?

Oh well too bad for him...he should have ducked...!

 

[EPHRIAM777]

PM Outspoken said
as said before, according to Romans 9-11, yes those truely of the jewish faith to go to heaven. How or why? Even Paul doesn't know. I'll leave the how up to God for now [/B]


Eph chuckles...

You don't have to leave it up to God...he already spelled it out QUITE clearly in those very chapters...!

So from what GOD has already said...I don't know how you gather from those scriptures ...that people of the Jewish Faith...go to Heaven..?

I think you missed the entire chapter 9 then...9:2..Paul is sorrowful for them ( the Jews )...He wishes he could somehow take their place and go to hell IF it would help his "bretheren" who are his kinsman..9:3..who are "Israelites"...who ALSO recieved all the laws and covenants ect ect ..

9:5...they also are the children of their "forefathers" ie Abraham Isaac and Jacob.... and are why Christ came...9:6...but they ( the Jews)..are not ALL Israel which are Israel...

THAT means that just because their born and Israelite a child of the seed of Jacob...just because their a Hebrew..a child of the seed of Abraham..doesn't mean THEY get a free pass....9:7:8...the children that FAITH the promise are the seed of Abraham...Spiritual Chrildren..not Fleshly Children...And that PROMISE is of the coming Messiah...!

Rom 9:24...Jews and Gentiles alike that are called by God by FAITH in his son...are the children of Promise...!

Rom 10:1:4...Paul's desire is that they ( the Jews )...MIGHT be saved..So at the time he desired that .....they weren't...!

An easy question to ask right here to you is Do unsaved people go to Heaven ..? I say no...you according to your position must say yes...!

Rom 10:3..the Jews are ignorant of God's righteousness..( which is speaking of JESUS )...They have not submitted themselves to JESUS ( again Gods righteousness )..THEY ( the Jews)..are going about to establish their OWN righteousness..( theyr're still TRYING to keep the OT Law of Moses as their standard of Righteousness before God...BUT now it's no longer law keeping..It's FAITH in Jesus Christ...that God accepts as "righteousness"..No other way will do...for Jew OR Gentile...!

No special "pass" is given just because someone might have fallen out of a Jewish womb at birth ...sorry...!

Rom 10:4...Christ is the END of the Law for righteousness...BUT only to those who do what...??? Only to those who "believeth"...!

Believeth what..??

Believeth on CHRIST...and no the works of the Law....mixed in...!

Ask any Jew even today if they "believeth on Jesus Christ as their Messiah"....and see what they say...??

When they answer you...!

THEN you'll also have your answer on whether they are on the right road..or not...!

 

[EPHRIAM777]

Rom 10:12...NO DIFFERENCE...between Jews or Gentiles now....during the time of the Gentiles...the SAME Lord ( Jesus Christ )...is over ALL...All that call upon HIM...

ROM 11:7...They ( the Jews )...are BLIND to the truth...of Jesus..10:8...God has given them a slumber..they don't have eyes to see OR ears to hear...

Now is the time of the Genitles..The Jews are in a put away state...till the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled...

NOT all Jews are UNbelievers though God has opened the eyes of some...because some DO come to the knowledge of Christ and are saved...But the vast majority of Jews..are STILL Jews because they reject Jesus Christ as Messiah...!

People who reject Jesus Christ....go to Heaven..?

As of NOW the Jews are as Rom 11:28 points out...they are concerning the Gosples.. enemies for our sakes...THEY do have their portion as touching the election..( they are descendants of Abraham.. Isaac.. and Jacob...)...They are beloved of God....NOT for their sakes or anything they've done.....but for their FATHERS sakes..( Abe Isaac and Jacob and the promises God made to them..)...!

Their in a put away type state...so the Gentiles can recieve the Gosple and BE saved...

God will turn his attention BACK to the Jews..and to Israel ....dutring the Tribulation..and get them to return to him...

BUT the Jews living now...during the Church age / Time of the Gentiles.....Are lost if they don't FAITH Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior...

.....And there isn't a JEW in this world who hasn't heard of Jesus Christ....heard of Christians...and heard about the message we teach called the Gosple...!

So their status is in dire straits eternally....if they reject Messiah now...and continue in their errors...!

 

[Cait]

Thanks EPHRIAM777, you really made it clear for me.

Let me see...what have I learnt, Israelites are not necessarily Jews...and Israel and Judah make up "all Israel"...and Jews are still keeping the OT Laws and they reject Jesus as the Messiah...so, until they see the error of their ways...no, they will not go to heaven because they do not have any special privileges as they are beloved of God because of their forefathers and not anything they have done!

*Cait thinks she has got it!  

But I only don't get one part! A SMALL part!

Ehpraim says here

As of NOW the Jews are as Rom 11:28 points out...they are concerning the Gosples.. enemies for our sakes..

enemies for our sakes? why is this?

 

[FOMWatts<><]

Sure Jews go to Heaven...if they believe in Jesus OR if they live a perfect life, which we already know is improbable.

FOMWatts<><

 

[Outspoken]

777, you've missed the point of Paul's writing style and the rest of the passage. Paul very clear comes to the conclusion that all of Israel will be saved. He is not sure how, but it will happen. Israel will be in heaven. God promises are not waisted. Verse 28 of chapter 11 is very clear about that. As election goes they are our brothers, for they are the elected of God and will be in heaven with us.

 

[Talmid HaYarok]

I would also hold that nowhere in the bible does it state a year or time that changes how you get to heaven. Yeshua's sacrifice was an event that transcends time both forwards and backwards.

So all are saved by faith whether then or now. Read Romans 3 for a lot more context, and direct answers to some of the questions.

Therese is also correct.

Peace.