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Do Genesis literalists also take the rest of the Bible literally?

How much of the Bible do you take literally?

  • All of it, including the examples below

  • Some of it, including Genesis, but not the examples below

  • None of it, the Bible was written in a different cultural and social setting

  • Most of it, but neither Genesis nor the examples below


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Loudmouth

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Let's start with a few questions. Would this wine contain DNA from yeast that never fermented the wine? What would be the 14C content of this wine, and why?

Second, what evidence do you have that this actually occurred?

Lightning is not a miracle, but a natural action which can be replicated easily enough.

No, science can not study lightning because I called it a miracle. Remember? Science is limited. As soon as I call something a miracle you can't use science to study it.

Rock formation is also observable and replicated. The formation of a nested hierarchy by evolutionary mechanisms is observable and replicated. The constant decay of isotopes is observable and replicated. And yet, you deny all of these because you have decided that the formation of the Earth was a miracle.

Try calming a storm by telling it to be still. Please explain how science can replicate the miracle.

Please show that the miracle actually happened. Why does science have to explain something that has never been shown to happen?

The only real limitation that science has that you seem to object to is that it doesn't treat fantasies as true. You actually have to have evidence.



Which part do you consider a violation of a natural law?
 
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verysincere

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Which part do you consider a violation of a natural law?

Excellent question. And it reminds me of a similar conversation I had on a forum with a creationist where she said, "No, miracles happen all the time."

So I asked, "Can you give me an example of the miracles which happen all the time?"

She replied, "Every time a baby is born, it is one of the greatest miracles imaginable."

Yes, the EQUIVOCATION FALLACY is often at the heart of bombastic claims by those who like to play games in these discussions. Obviously, the birth of a baby happens every minute of every day because it is the OPPOSITE of a miracle: it is exactly what natural processes would predict and DEMAND. No defiance of natural processes at all!

So it is no wonder that these kinds of discussions descend into irrelevant nonsense unrelated to the topic.
 
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Jamin4422

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As soon as I call something a miracle you can't use science to study it.
You can use science to study a miracle. If there was a natural law broken or if there is an imperfection anywhere, then there was no miracle. When God performs a miracle then everything is restored back to God's purpose and intention. Everything is as it should be.
 
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Jamin4422

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she said, "No, miracles happen all the time."
There are two groups of people. Those who believe everything is a miracle and those who believe NOTHING is a miracle.

discussions descend into irrelevant nonsense
R U sure your going to heaven. Because what we call heaven you seem to be calling "irrelevant nonsense". You got a lot of theory, but I really do not think you could make any of it happen in the real world.
 
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verysincere

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See what I mean?
 
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Jamin4422

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Homeless people are homeless for a reason. Not because they do not have a home but because they destroy their home. If you try to give them a home they destroy it. There really is often nothing you can do because when you try to help they drag you down with them.
 
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46AND2

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People of every faith have similar stories. What makes your brother's story a miracle, and theirs not?
 
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Smidlee

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THIS THREAD QUESTION IS FOR EVERYBODY, anybody can answer and participate in the discussion.

Do those who literally interpret the passages in Genesis 1-9 also literally interpret these passages:

1 - Women should not teach or have authority over men.
I still agree with this as a woman should teach submission to their children. This doesn't mean a woman is inferior but has a different role than a man. Women should teach other women and especially children.
2 - Nobody should work on the Sabbath.
I believe in taking both Sabbath and Sunday off. Yet I'm not literally a Jew which the Sabbath was never given to the Gentiles.
3 - Pork and shellfish are unclean and should not be eaten.
4 - Women should not wear pants.
I'm not a literal Jew nor am I from the literal nation Israel.
5 - Nobody should wear clothes woven with different fabrics.
6 - Nobody should sit in the same place a woman during her period has sat.

And so on...
Since I'm not a literal Jew then this automatically means I'm not a literal Levite either.
I'm literally a Gentile and figuratively a dog eating crumbs falling from the master's table.
 
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KWCrazy

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People of every faith have similar stories. What makes your brother's story a miracle, and theirs not?
Who said theirs is not?

The point is, this was a person with as much antipathy toward God and religion as anyone here. He considered the Bible to be nothing but a book of lies, much like some "Bible-affirming Christians" in this forum. He was led to the cross against his will, and despite his objections he found God and the Holy Spirit found him. The change in him was profound. He went from being filled with hatred to being filled with love. He deleted the porn off his computer and filled it with Bible studies. He taught computer classes for free and was in charge of the church's food bank. Although he was free to help himself to any of the food he lived on hot dogs and made sure others got the best stuff donated.

Now, was that a scientific miracle? No. Was it a miracle? In my opinion it was because there was no logical reason for a person to go from being filled with hatred to being filled with love without extensive psychotherapy. The only counseling he received came from a God many of you refuse to believe in. Why would a brittle diabetic walk over a mile in the heat to go to the store for a person he had only known for a few months and who could do nothing for him? He had loaned a $400 bicycle (from another brother who owned a bicycle shop) to a guy who also lived in the projects. This person, who we didn't know, had so much respect for my brother he brought the bike back and made sure we got it.

His funeral was held in the church where he had become a deacon. There were very few white people there besides us. Most were black or Hispanic. One after another they told stories of how my brother; one of the most racist people I had ever known; had impacted their lives.

According to my youngest brother who had found him; the former paramedic; My brother had been clinically dead several times that year from diabetic complications and seizures. It seems to us that God kept giving him extra time to get his life right. When he was acceptable to God, God called him home.

It's a shame that so many of you will never know that God. So many of you are willing to call God a liar; a deceiver; and to say that His Word is nothing but mythology. Some of you seem dedicated to coming to Christian web sites and attacking our faith. The evidence of God is all around you, but you close your eyes and refuse to see. You pretend that the made up physical world which will soon pass away is everything and deny the eternity of your spirit which will live forever SOMEWHERE. You decide where. You are so convinced that you are right and the truth lies in the physical world that you blind your eyes and close your heart to message of love that God wants to send you. It's sad, but all we can do is tell you the truth and try to live it ourselves.
 
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46AND2

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Who said theirs is not?


Why would God provide a miracle that leads them to a wrong religion?


Why do you presume to know what motivation people have to come to this site? Some people are here because they are truth seekers, and are willing to look at both sides of the theology issue.

"The evidence of God is all around you."

We know that the earth is old by looking around us; making observations about what we see. If that is God's evidence, then he is telling us that he created the earth a long time ago.
 
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Smidlee

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There are two groups of people. Those who believe everything is a miracle and those who believe NOTHING is a miracle.
The second group doesn't exist as everyone believe in miracles. It's more like there are those who admits they believe in miracles and those who tries to deny they do.
 
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KWCrazy

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[/font][/color]We know that the earth is old by looking around us; making observations about what we see. If that is God's evidence, then he is telling us that he created the earth a long time ago.
God created a world capable of sustaining life, so it was a mature planet.
He created grasses intact, trees bearing fruit, birds, fishes and whales intact. All were in their mature state. He created man in a mature state and stars with the light from them already shining on the earth; a neat trick for a star 900 light years away. There is nothing written that would in any way indicate that anything He created would need to grow to maturity. Oak trees that take 100 years to mature were created intact instantly. Rock formations that take millions of years to form were created by His command. If He had intended for man to believe the earth was millions of years old He would have not included the generations from Adam to Jesus in His book. Because He was so specific about the days of creation being one 24 hour (or so) day, we know that He wanted us to have that information. Read the genealogies and you can tell how much time elapsed. There are reasons God wanted us to know this.
 
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AV1611VET

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Let me quote from Adam Clarke's Commentary.

Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
 
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46AND2

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Yes, you keep claiming this embedded age thing, but you continuously evade the point that we don't just see age, we see HISTORY.

We see old lava flows which cover sediment layers containing fossils. Did these fossils ever actually live, or did God plant them there? A rock is dated to the last time it was melted. That resets the clock. The lava flow over those fossils melted millions of years ago.

We see asteroid craters which melt the rock and reset their dates to when it occurred. Did they ever really happen, or did God plant them there?

We see hundreds of thousands of ancient viruses in our genomes. Did they ever infect anybody, or did God plant them there?

We see the Hawaiian Islands being created by slow tectonic movement over a hot spot, which don't have any sediment layers on them, indicating they had to occur after any possible flood. The formation, tectonic movement, and erosion had to take massive amounts of time to occur. Did any of this ever happen, or did God plant the islands there after the flood?

No, it's not age...it's history.
 
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AV1611VET

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Yes, you keep claiming this embedded age thing, but you continuously evade the point that we don't just see age, we see HISTORY.
You also interpret history as well, don't you?
We see old lava flows which cover sediment layers containing fossils.
So?
Did these fossils ever actually live, or did God plant them there?
They lived.
A rock is dated to the last time it was melted.
Okay. And let me guess. You assume it reset to zero? Is this correct?
That resets the clock.
All the way? I doubt it.
The lava flow over those fossils melted millions of years ago.
Let me guess. You date the lava flow by the age of the rocks. Is this correct?
We see asteroid craters which melt the rock and reset their dates to when it occurred.
To zero ... right?
Did they ever really happen, or did God plant them there?
They really happened ... < 6000 years ago.
We see hundreds of thousands of ancient viruses in our genomes.
Okay.
Did they ever infect anybody, or did God plant them there?
Given the two choices ... I would say they infected someone.
We see the Hawaiian Islands being created by slow tectonic movement over a hot spot, which don't have any sediment layers on them, indicating they had to occur after any possible flood.
Okay.
The formation, tectonic movement, and erosion had to take massive amounts of time to occur.
Why? because you assume they traveled from Point A to Point B at a given amount of speed?
Did any of this ever happen, or did God plant the islands there after the flood?
The islands could have occurred when God broke Eden up into continents.
No, it's not age...it's history.
It's the history of age, in an age of history.
 
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46AND2

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You also interpret history as well, don't you?

Of course. So show us how our interpretation is wrong.

I explained why this is important in my post. So why do you ask for the explanation again?

They lived.

Then why do they have millions of years old rock above them?

Okay. And let me guess. You assume it reset to zero? Is this correct?

No. We observe that it does.

All the way? I doubt it.

Yes. All the way.

Let me guess. You date the lava flow by the age of the rocks. Is this correct?

Yes, because that is how we date rocks. A rock is only as old as the last time it was melted.

To zero ... right?

Yes.

They really happened ... < 6000 years ago.

Then why does the amount of radioactive byproduct say otherwise?

Okay.

Given the two choices ... I would say they infected someone.

In 6000 years? That's nearly 40 per year.

Okay.

Why? because you assume they traveled from Point A to Point B at a given amount of speed?

No, because we measure them to have done so. Through observed movement speed, and backed up by radiometric dating.

The islands could have occurred when God broke Eden up into continents.

Then why would God place them in such a location so that they are consistent with observed rates of movement, AND quantity of radioactive decay?

It's the history of age, in an age of history.

How poetic.
 
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KWCrazy

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The Paricutin Volcano is considered one of the world's natural wonders because she was the fastest growing volcano ever recorded in history. It grew up to 150 feet in just six days. The volcano is located in the geographical region called the Plateau of Mexico. Farmers have actually witnessed it's daily growth. The Paricutin volcano is known as the “The volcano from a cornfield” because the volcano literally grew out of a cornfield.

The volcano is located at 19.5°N, 102.2°W. The volcano is just outside a city called Michoacan, 200 miles west of Mexico City. Her elevation is 10,400 feet. The volcano grew that tall in just nine years.
source

However, there are many fossils that we know fossilized very quickly. In fact, Dr. Phillip Curie (former curator of the Royal Tyrell Museum in Drumheller, Alberta) wrote in his book “101 Questions About Dinosaurs”:

“Fossilization is a process that can take anything from a few hours to millions of years.”

Wait – a few hours?!?!??? Yup, you heard straight from the horse’s mouth – and he’s right. It can happen remarkably fast. In fact the fossil fish in the Santana formation of Brazil were declared by one evolutionary researcher to have fossilized in minutes. It was suggested that perhaps fossilization is actually what killed the fish!
source


Note: This link also shows a teddy bear that was fossilized in 3 months.
 
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AV1611VET

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No, because we measure them to have done so. Through observed movement speed, and backed up by radiometric dating.
Then you measure incorrectly, in my opinion.

Nature doesn't have a START HERE / END HERE marker.

Take the Himalayas for example (or whatever those mountains in Tibet are).

Geologists assume India "torpedoed" into the Asia continent millions (?) of years ago and pushed up that mountain range.

But how do they come up with 'millions' of years?

They assume India started its approach to the Asian continent from some point way out in the ocean, then traveled at a uniform speed to its destination.

If I drive 60 m.p.h. to work, those who assume it takes me an hour to get to work assume I live 60 miles away; and those who assume it takes me a half hour to get to work assume I live 30 miles away.
 
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verysincere

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Poe.


(The "fossilized" teddy bear is my favorite.)

.
 
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