Do evolutionists really understand the complexity of things?

[AV1611VET]

No, because the Bible doesn't say that.

You might want to check with your colleagues here about that first.

While you're at it, ask them if the Bible says their are two conflicting creation accounts.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No shame in you because that is the ultimate,claim of evolution. This deserves repeating with a bigger sledgehammer. The claim is we all (wasps monkeys and people) all came from one single creature, whatever that was, in the eons past and that single creature through millions of years became everything there is.

It's not really a claim, actually. It's more like a conclusion.

Its all bunk with no ability to,prove it. Its all assumption.

That is not true. In the post that Freodin is replying to, I literally gave you the skeleton that can be rather easily tested.

If evolution is true, then life is a branching tree.
Ie, you won't find reptiles with an inner earbone, because inner earbones are a mammal thing.

Go ahead.
Find a fossil in the wrong place. A rabbit in the pre-crambrian, for example.
Find stuff that breaks the tree. An amphibian with hair, for example.
Find genetic stuff that breaks the tree. A cat that shares more ERV's with humans then chimps. Or some other genetic marker that is vertically inherited.

If it's so wrong... why can't it be shown to be wrong?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Here lies a major problem of evolution. Its called defenitions which are used to show an assumption.

Nothing about the nested hierarchy of life is assumed.
Those are observable facts. And it's easily testable as well.

Our classification system litterally is just pasting labels on all those groups. It doesn't matter what we call them. They are there. We just name them so we can talk about them, refer to them,... You know how language works, yes?

We are defined as primates because we are,defined as,primates.

No. What defines us as primates are our physical attributes. The facts about our biology. Yes, we categorize life. We use groups wich are actually just nodes on the branching tree of life. Off course, we have to figure out what the groups are, first.

The fact that we can actually do this, is quite ironically, because life happens to fall into a nested hierarchy. Did it ever occur to you to wonder why the classification of life is in kind of an ever-specialising structure?
Eukaryote - Animal - Tetrapod - Mammal - Primate - Homo
And I'm probably skipping a lot of them as well.

Therefore the assumption is that we have a common ancestor as the monkey because They are primates too. Its a self fulfilling prophecy. Its an assumptive prophecy.

It's not. It's a conclusion from data.

I don't care what science defenition is placed on me I am not a monkey and never have been related to,one by ancestry.

Ow goody... an emotional argument.

This cannot be proven. We see no monkeys evolving into people today. Why?
Because we've already branched off of the monkey tree. In great, when did that happen? Did anyone observe it? No it is assumed it happened

Such events of the past have observable impact on the data in the present.
The "were-you-there" answer or variants thereof is absurd.

because we believe in a theory for which something has never been observed or tested.

That is a straight up lie.

 

[Mobezom]

"Were you there?"
"Oh, yes, I was!"
"No, you weren't!!"
"How do you know?"
"Nobody can live that long!"
"How do you know?"
"They just can't! You have to have been born after the 1800s, anything else would be ridiculous."
"...were you there?"

*EPIC TROLLFACE*

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Every single new born of every single species is a "mutant".

YOU, being a human, have an average of some 50-ish mutations in your DNA.



Please learn how evolution works and what the word "fitness" means in context of evolutionary biology and how mutation might result int more or less fitness.

I know for a fact that you've already been lectured on this exact topic right here on these forums. Or at the very very least, you've read posts on here that explained it.


It is really amazing to see how the same falsehoods and "playing dumb" is repeated over and over and over... how creationists are corrected on the exact same points time and again, while a couple days later, when those posts are burried in the pages, they just repeat the exact same falsehoods.

I simply don't get it.

We can repeat a thousands times over "that's not how it works...this is how it works". And it's only a matter of days, sometimes even just hours, before we are back arguing about the same strawman.

One has to start wondering if it is being done on purpose...

Here's an exercise in honesty for you:
Name an instance of an observed mutation that had a positive effect on fitness either in the lab or in the wild.

I know of at least 3 that are regularly repeated on these forums.

When you gave us an example mutation, then please refer to the post I'm quoting here and then explain how your post is still valid in context of that example of a mutation that increased fitness.

Aren't having mutations in my DNA and those mutation appearing two different things? Not everyone who has the shingles virus has an outbreak of shingles. Not every inherited genetic weakness is expressed either. And, as was opined by another, don't these 'mutations' give us our individuality?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Please learn how evolution works and what the word "fitness" means in context of evolutionary biology and how mutation might result int more or less fitness.

Evolution claims responsibility for everything, including thoughts. Explain why I don't think evolution is true.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Events of the past leave evidence that can be observed in the present

You only have the bones from the past, no soft tissue to study. And many of those 'evolved' species are simply the bones of adolescents and juveniles of the same critter presented as having 'evolved'.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Evolution claims responsibility for everything, including thoughts. Explain why I don't think evolution is true.

Must be because of those harmful mutations.

 

[Loudmouth]

You might want to check with your colleagues here about that first.

"First, . . . to want to affirm that in reality the sun is at the center of the world and only turns on itself without moving from east to west, and the earth . . . revolves with great speed about the sun . . . is a very dangerous thing, likely not only to irritate all scholastic philosophers and theologians, but also to harm the Holy Faith by rendering Holy Scripture false."--Cardinal Bellarmine, 1615

 

[Loudmouth]

Evolution claims responsibility for everything, including thoughts.

Reference, please.

Explain why I don't think evolution is true.

It contradicts your religious beliefs.

 

[Loudmouth]

You only have the bones from the past, no soft tissue to study. And many of those 'evolved' species are simply the bones of adolescents and juveniles of the same critter presented as having 'evolved'.

Please show me a modern human child who looks like an australopithecine.

 

[AV1611VET]

"First, . . . to want to affirm that in reality the sun is at the center of the world and only turns on itself without moving from east to west, and the earth . . . revolves with great speed about the sun . . . is a very dangerous thing, likely not only to irritate all scholastic philosophers and theologians, but also to harm the Holy Faith by rendering Holy Scripture false."--Cardinal Bellarmine, 1615

I do believe Mobezom would disagree with the Cardinal on this.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

member: 11790"]Reference, please.[/QUOTE]

Past posts by evolutionists.

It contradicts your religious beliefs.

I formed my religious beliefs long before I even heard of evolution.

 

[Loudmouth]

I do believe Mobezom would disagree with the Cardinal on this.

Many Christians would also disagree with your literal interpretation of scripture.

 

[Loudmouth]

Past posts by evolutionists.

That would be posters, not evolution.

Please reference a single peer reviewed paper that says evolution is responsible for everything.

I formed my religious beliefs long before I even heard of evolution.

And now you reject evolution because it contradicts those religious beliefs.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Please show me a modern human child who looks like an australopithecine.

My point exactly. They are two different critters.

 

[Loudmouth]

My point exactly. They are two different critters.

No, that wasn't your point. You said just the opposite.

"And many of those 'evolved' species are simply the bones of adolescents and juveniles of the same critter presented as having 'evolved'."--OldWiseGuy

 

[AV1611VET]

Many Christians would also disagree with your literal interpretation of scripture.

Peer review?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That would be posters, not evolution.

Please reference a single peer reviewed paper that says evolution is responsible for everything.

I accept the arguments of posters here. They seem to know their subject.

And now you reject evolution because it contradicts those religious beliefs.

The complexity that science discovers supports special creation.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, that wasn't your point. You said just the opposite.

"And many of those 'evolved' species are simply the bones of adolescents and juveniles of the same critter presented as having 'evolved'."--OldWiseGuy

Both statements are true. Many fossils that show 'evolution' are simply the young of the species, and, Australopithecus and modern man are different creations.