Do creationists critically examine their own ideas (re: creationism)?

[trophy33]

You're speaking of yourself, not me. As I've said, the reason I don't bother providing the evidence to you is because I don't see why I should spend the time to craft a well reasoned reply to your posts when you're just going to ignore it.

Its can be useful for other people who will read it, for example me or other Christians wondering about these things.

I see it in this way - discussion will never change the one who is already decided. But its useful for the silent, third side witnessing it. For some, if they are from some small isolated cult, internet discussion can be the only place they can get alternative explanations and views.

When I was 20 or so, I was also the YEC and discussed this on internet. I was not prepared to change, but at least, I had a knowledge that there are alternatives. And years later I could change because of this knowledge.

Information is important, even if not accepted in the moment.

Of course, do not expect to change or convert dad. He is like a Flat Earther, at least now. But other people are watching and judging our arguments and behaviour ;-)

 

[dad]

You're speaking of yourself, not me. As I've said, the reason I don't bother providing the evidence to you is because I don't see why I should spend the time to craft a well reasoned reply to your posts when you're just going to ignore it.

Your religion cannot be supported, so you whine.

 

[dad]

I recommend you to learn more about the Bible, how it came to be, different manuscripts, canons, traditions. After that, you will think in a more complex way, not just black&white way like "we have every word right". We have enough, thanks to God's provision. But not every word.

If there were parts of the voluminous jots and tittles of the bible that were not of God we would know it. Jesus erased the doubts.

 

[Kylie]

Your religion cannot be supported, so you whine.

It seems all you do in your replies to my posts is state incorrectly that science can not be supported.

Yet you are incapable of providing support for your own position.

You are the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[trophy33]

If there were parts of the voluminous jots and tittles of the bible that were not of God we would know it. Jesus erased the doubts.

Not sure what you mean.

There are no two bible translations or manuscripts in original language that are the same into every "jots and tittles". Its simply technically impossible to copy large portions of text for thousands of years by hand and still have every word right.

Whole chapters, sentences are different, not just words. And lets ignore different canons (whole books different) for the sake of simplicity.

Also, aside from the textual preservation problem, Jesus clearly said that not everything in the "bible" (as you still incorrectly use the word) is from God, for example:
"Moses [not God, not me, but Moses] allowed you to divorce, but I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, commits adultery..."

So, as I said, if you would just read the Bible more carefuly, you would not be such YEC and literalism hardcore proponent, even if you would not care about education in other things.

 

[dad]

It seems all you do in your replies to my posts is state incorrectly that science can not be supported.

Yet you are incapable of providing support for your own position.

You are the pot calling the kettle black.

That's nice.

 

[dad]

Not sure what you mean.

There are no two bible translations or manuscripts in original language that are the same into every "jots and tittles". Its simply technically impossible to copy large portions of text for thousands of years by hand and still have every word right.

Ever thin that God used translators to get a few things right, that maybe were not quite the way He wanted it in the original? Ha.

Whole chapters, sentences are different, not just words. And lets ignore different canons (whole books different) for the sake of simplicity.

Jesus confirmed it as great stuff...relax. You do not rise from the dead on bogus texts.

Also, aside from the textual preservation problem, Jesus clearly said that not everything in the "bible" (as you still incorrectly use the word) is from God, for example:
"Moses [not God, not me, but Moses] allowed you to divorce, but I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, commits adultery..."

Yes, Mo was delegated as ruler over a people, not only as a writer of Scripture.

So, as I said, if you would just read the Bible more carefuly, you would not be such YEC and literalism hardcore proponent, even if you would not care about education in other things.

Name ONE person in the bible that thought the earth was billions of years old and not directly actually created by God!? Get serious.

 

[trophy33]

Ever thin that God used translators to get a few things right, that maybe were not quite the way He wanted it in the original? Ha.

What "ha"? You did not get rid off the problem.

Jesus confirmed it as great stuff...relax. You do not rise from the dead on bogus texts.

Again, you did not get rid off the problem.

Yes, Mo was delegated as ruler over a people, not only as a writer of Scripture.

Again, you did not get rid off the problem.

Name ONE person in the bible that thought the earth was billions of years old and not directly actually created by God!? Get serious.

Name one person in the Bible who thought the Earth was thousands of years old and that people were living with dinosaurs.

 

[Tone]

And personal testimony is worthless as evidence for how the real world works.

Well, I guess we have to do away with the legal system...and contract law...and...all relationships...

*Guess we'll all be robots...

 

[dad]

What "ha"? You did not get rid off the problem.

Again, you did not get rid off the problem.

Again, you did not get rid off the problem.
,
Name one person in the Bible who thought the Earth was thousands of years old and that people were living with dinosaurs.

God is in control of His word to man and Jesus verified it as absolutely true. People in the bible made no mention of any time when creatures were not created, and the bible says He created all things. If people knew of the dinos hundreds of years BC or in the days of the early church they knew that it was all started in creation week.

 

[Ophiolite]

Well, I guess we have to do away with the legal system...and contract law...and...all relationships...
.

The legal system favours forensic evidence over eye witness testimony.
Contract law is reliant upon documentary evidence that can be viewed repeatedly by all interested and relevant parties and thus be consistently validated.
Relationships run into trouble precisely because participants in a relationship have a subjective view of interactions.

*Guess we'll all be robots...

You mean entities that have a limited skill set and restricted knowledge base so that their responses to stimuli outside their design field are both predictable and incomplete?

 

[Tone]

The legal system favours forensic evidence over eye witness testimony.

Since when?

Contract law is reliant upon documentary evidence that can be viewed repeatedly by all interested and relevant parties and thus be consistently validated.

You mean things signed by real human beings...conscious persons?

Relationships run into trouble precisely because participants in a relationship have a subjective view of interactions.

So, let's get rid of relationships...

You mean entities that have a limited skill set and restricted knowledge base so that their responses to stimuli outside their design field are both
predictable and incomplete?

I mean one-track oriented...closed minded...socially retarded...unimaginitive...emotionless...perpetual analyses machines...

 

[Ophiolite]

Since when?

Since the unreliability of eye witness testimony was recognised.

You mean things signed by real human beings...conscious persons?

Those signatures are witnessed at the time, all such signatures being available to forensic scrutiny for confirmation or rejection.

So, let's get rid of relationships...

Your choice. Or you could try to make a better go of perceiving alternate views than is evident on this forum.

 

[Tone]

Since the unreliability of eye witness testimony was recognised.

Those signatures are witnessed at the time, all such signatures being available to forensic scrutiny for confirmation or rejection.

Your choice. Or you could try to make a better go of perceiving alternate views than is evident on this forum.

Tell this to @Kylie .

 

[Ophiolite]

Tell this to @Kylie .

I am sure Kylie can read. What is it in my posts you think Kylie would be at odds with?

 

[Tone]

I am sure Kylie can read. What is it in my posts you think Kylie would be at odds with?

You responded for her...so. She seems to think that personal testimony is worthless...you have confirmed that it is not, but is a part of the reality we live in as a society.

*It is probably the greatest mark of society...

 

[W2L]

We cant find hope under a microscope or in a mathematical equation. That's what God is, hope.

 

[Ophiolite]

You responded for her...so. She seems to think that personal testimony is worthless...you have confirmed that it is not, but is a part of the reality we live in as a society.

*It is probably the greatest mark of society...

I didn't respond for her. Kylie has demonstrated repeatedly she needs no one to respond for her. I reacted to apparently erroneous assertions on your part.

If Kylie, indeed thinks that "personal testimony is worthless" then I would be in strong disagreement with her. However, having reviewed her posts in this thread I do not see evidence that such is her view. She asserts that "personal testimony is worthless as evidence for how the real world works". That is completely different from "personal testimony is worthless".

 

[Tone]

She asserts that "personal testimony is worthless as evidence for how the real world works"

And I stand by my assertion that the "real world" revolves around personal testimony and convention (which is an agreed upon testimony).

*
Definition of testimony


1a: a solemn declaration usually made orally by a witness under oath in response to interrogation by a lawyer or authorized public official
b: firsthand authentication of a fact : EVIDENCE
c: an outward sign
2a: an open acknowledgment
b: a public profession of religious experience
3a(1): the tablets inscribed with the Mosaic law
(2): the ark containing the tablets
b: a divine decree attested in the Scriptures
Definition of TESTIMONY

 

[trophy33]

God is in control of His word to man and Jesus verified it as absolutely true. People in the bible made no mention of any time when creatures were not created, and the bible says He created all things. If people knew of the dinos hundreds of years BC or in the days of the early church they knew that it was all started in creation week.

God is in control of everything, you said nothing by this.

Name one person in the Bible who believed the universe is thousands of years old, that man is from literal dirt/dust, that Noah took pinguins or dinosaurs on the ark and other YEC stuff.