Do creationist care about fake degrees?

[Biblewriter]

We know that Creationists persecute people who don't agree with them. But as you see, scientists generally don't do that. Creationism is clearly guilty. But you haven't shown us that science is.

During my university days, I personally saw my professor literallt trembling with rage over the fact that I, as an senior level biology student, did not believe evolution.

Many years later, I was required to sign a statement recognizing that I had been told that I would be terminated from my position if I mentioned my beliefs to any employee of my company, or to any vendor selling material to the company, on a 24 hour a day basis.

I happen to know that my case was not unique, that the same thing was done in many places, and this practice has been encouraged in supposedly "scientific" journals.

Evolutionists reqularly attempt to forcibly squelch debate on the merits of their pet theory, even to the point of repeatedly trying (and sometimes succeding) to get it declared illegal to point out the flaws in their theory.

So don't tell me that evolutionists are tolerant. I know better.

 

[busterdog]

During my university days, I personally saw my professor literallt trembling with rage over the fact that I, as an senior level biology student, did not believe evolution.

Many years later, I was required to sign a statement recognizing that I had been told that I would be terminated from my position if I mentioned my beliefs to any employee of my company, or to any vendor selling material to the company, on a 24 hour a day basis.

I happen to know that my case was not unique, that the same thing was done in many places, and this practice has been encouraged in supposedly "scientific" journals.

Evolutionists reqularly attempt to forcibly squelch debate on the merits of their pet theory, even to the point of repeatedly trying (and sometimes succeding) to get it declared illegal to point out the flaws in their theory.

So don't tell me that evolutionists are tolerant. I know better.

The message I am hearing from the academic evolutionists on this site is, mostly, that this doesnt happen.

In other threads, I am trying to distinguish between "things dont happen at all as you say" and "things dont happen quite to the degree or with the same significance that you say."

If you look at most online debates about Ben Stein, it is mostly the former proposition advanced by evolutionists, or they at least seem to give that impression.

If I wanted to have a discussion with an opponent, I would have little hope for continuing the discussion if this critical distinction cannot be made. Few things are as endearing as a confession of weakness and admission of some vulnerability on a point. Without it, I think one may assume that supposedly hard facts presented in debate are not so hard and not so reliable.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Probably not a good example. The ICR requires that you submit a loyalty oath to creationism before even applying at the institution. Compare this with a legitimate school, (like Harvard accepting Kurt Wise) where all that counted was ability.

The vast majority of degrees held by ICR faculty, were earned at respected SECULAR institutions:

Steven A. Austin, Professor of Geology and Chair of the Department of Geology
B. S., University of Washington, Seattle, Washington, 1970
M. S., San Jose State University, San Jose, California 1971
Ph. D., Pennsylvania State University, College Park, Pennsylvania, 1979

John R. Baumgardner, Associate Professor of Geophysics
B. S., Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, 1968
M. S., Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, 1970
M. S., University of California, Los Angeles, California, 1981
Ph. D., University of California, Los Angeles, California, 1983

Sharon E. Cargo, (adjunct) Assistant Professor of Biology
B. S., Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio, 1972
D.V.M., Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio, 1977
M. S., Institute for Creation Research Graduate School, Santee, California, 2002

Daniel C. Criswell, Assistant Professor of Biology and Chair of the Department of Biology
B. S., Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 1982
M. S., Institute for Creation Research Graduate School, Santee, California 1994
Ph. D., University of Montana, Missoula, Montana, 2004

Stephen W. Deckard, (adjunct) Professor of Education
B. A., McKendree College, Lebanon, Illinois, 1975
M. S., University of Illinois, Champaign, Illinois 1979
Ed. D., Agrosy University, Sarasota, Florida, 1993

David A. DeWitt, (adjunct) Associate Professor of Biology
B. S., Michigan State University, East Lansing, Michigan, 1991
Ph. D., Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, 1996

Danny R. Faulkner, (adjunct) Associate Professor of Astronomy
B. S., Bob Jones University, Greenville, South Carolina 1976
M. S., Clemson University, Clemson, South Carolina 1979
M. A., Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana 1983
Ph. D., Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana 1989

Russell D. Humphreys, Associate Professor of Physics
B. S., Duke University, Durham, North Carolina, 1963
Ph. D., Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 1972

Eddy Miller, Dean of the Graduate School
B. A., Northwestern State University, Natchitoches, Louisiana, 1963
M. S. in Ed., Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Illinois, 1965
Ph. D., U. S. International University, San Diego California, 1969

Patricia L. Nason, Associate Professor of Science Education and Chair of the Department of Science Education
B. A., Sam Houston State University, Huntsville, Texas, 1984
M. Ed., Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas, 1991
Ph. D., Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas, 1994

Chris Osborne, (adjunct) Professor of Biology
B. A., California State University, Fullerton, California, 1975
M. S., Institute for Creation Research Graduate School, Santee, California, 1985
Ph. D., Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, California, 1989

Gary Parker, Professor of Biology
B.A., Wabash College, Crawfordville, IN, 1962
M.S., Ball State University, Muncie, IN, 1965
Ed.D., Ball State University, Muncie, IN, 1973

Larry Vardiman, Professor of Atmospheric Science and Chair of the Department of Astro-geophysics
B. S. University of Missouri, Rolla, Missouri, 1965
M. S., St. Louis University, St. Louis, Missouri, 1967
M. S., Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado, 1972
Ph. D., Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado, 1974

 

[Christian Soldier]

Do evolutionist trolls care that Charles Darwin NEVER earned a degree in ANY field of science?!

Do evolutionist trolls care that their Straw Man tactic of attacking Kent "Evolutionist Straw Man" Hovind, does absolutely NOTHING to disprove or discredit the THOUSANDS of Creation Scientists and Intelligent Design advocates who have EARNED degrees from SECULAR universities?!

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian chuckles:
Probably not a good example. The ICR requires that you submit a loyalty oath to creationism before even applying at the institution. Compare this with a legitimate school, (like Harvard accepting Kurt Wise) where all that counted was ability.
​

The vast majority of degrees held by ICR faculty, were earned at respected SECULAR institutions:

Yes, except of course the one from Bob Jones U., which is neither secular nor respected (until recently they were officially racist as a religious doctrine)

All the rest of the creationists you noted were, like Kurt Wise, welcomed and accepted at legitimate schools. But they will not give the same sort of tolerance themselves. The ICR graduate school requires a loyalty oath to creationism to be accepted.

These are incontestable facts, and illustrate the major difference between creationism and science, anecdotes notwithstanding.

Do evolutionist trolls care that Charles Darwin NEVER earned a degree in ANY field of science?!

Isaac Newton never received a degree in any field of science. Neither did Galileo or Kepler. I don't see the point here, unless you're saying we need to discount all the things these men discovered.

 

[The Barbarian]

During my university days, I personally saw my professor literallt trembling with rage over the fact that I, as an senior level biology student, did not believe evolution.

And then, having discovered this, they expelled you from the university, um? If not, you got a better deal than an evolutionist would have gotten at the ICR graduate school. You're proving my point for me.

Many years later, I was required to sign a statement recognizing that I had been told that I would be terminated from my position if I mentioned my beliefs to any employee of my company, or to any vendor selling material to the company, on a 24 hour a day basis.

People selling things tend to be touchy about people bringing up controversial topics with customers. But that's not a university, is it?

I happen to know that my case was not unique, that the same thing was done in many places, and this practice has been encouraged in supposedly "scientific" journals.

Vagueness does very little for the argument.

Evolutionists reqularly attempt to forcibly squelch debate on the merits of their pet theory, even to the point of repeatedly trying (and sometimes succeding) to get it declared illegal to point out the flaws in their theory.

But you aren't going to actually give examples, um?

So don't tell me that evolutionists are tolerant.

In your case they were. As you learned, an evolutionist at the ICR graduate school would have been removed.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Slaughter of the Dissidents: The Shocking Truth About Killing the Careers of Darwin Doubters

http://slaughterofthedissidents.com/

 

[busterdog]

And then, having discovered this, they expelled you from the university, um? If not, you got a better deal than an evolutionist would have gotten at the ICR graduate school. You're proving my point for me.



People selling things tend to be touchy about people bringing up controversial topics with customers. But that's not a university, is it?



Vagueness does very little for the argument.



But you aren't going to actually give examples, um?



In your case they were. As you learned, an evolutionist at the ICR graduate school would have been removed.

I don't know why any creationist would respond to such things. Conventional scientists teaching evolution are exclusionary towards Christians and creationists.

Frankly, it is stupid to say otherwise. I cant tell if that is what you are saying. I think you are saying that it doesnt matter because creation science is such a cesspool. I think you "proved" that with two (possibly) weak degrees and two loyalty oaths. And yet you bust this post because it is vague? Just admit that evolutionists can be brutally discriminatory (in some unspecified degree) and then move on.

I went into a settlement conference last week on a tax appeal. There are two ways to appraise novel properties - on the cost approach and on the income method. I made it very clear to my adversary that I knew the cases on the income approach and that I understood the issues that would probably choose the court to decide on which method to choose. So, what did we do, I had to listen to this continuing yarn about how wonderful the income method was. I say, dude, I understand the freaking law. How do we look at the two different methods to see where the common ground is? He still doesnt get it.

So, lets pretend this is not a settlement conference where we discuss common issues and look for common ground. Lets pretend that we are in front of a not-too-bright jury.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, yes, creationists have a loyalty oath because they are honest. Evolutionists, by contrast, are like the Stazi, the KGB, the secret police. Persecuting in a secret. Blackballing opposition in silence. Damaging the academic records of Christians quietly, with long knives in the backs of people honest about their beliefs.

Its not hard to do the rhetoric thing. You should try turning it around on your own position. You would learn alot.