Do Catholics believe the souls in Purgatory can appear to the living?

[Anna Scott]

Dear Catholic friends,

I watched a program on TV recently about demon possession, oppression, and infestation. There was a distinction made between demons/evil spirits; and other spirits which could be the souls in Purgatory. There was a Catholic Priest on the program; and the subject matter seemed to be discussed from a Catholic point of view--though I could be mistaken.

So, do Catholics believe the souls in Purgatory can appear to the living or somehow get "stuck" in a certain place causing what some people would refer to as a "haunting"?

Thank you,
Anna

 

[catholicbybirth]

Dear Catholic friends,

I watched a program on TV recently about demon possession, oppression, and infestation. There was a distinction made between demons/evil spirits; and other spirits which could be the souls in Purgatory. There was a Catholic Priest on the program; and the subject matter seemed to be discussed from a Catholic point of view--though I could be mistaken.

So, do Catholics believe the souls in Purgatory can appear to the living or somehow get "stuck" in a certain place causing what some people would refer to as a "haunting"?

Thank you,
Anna

AFAIK, no soul in Purgatory is stuck in any place. We do not believe in ghosts. However, any soul could do whatever God wanted. So, if God wanted a soul from Purgatory to appear to someone who was alive, then it would happen. But we have no recording of this ever happening.

The only place the souls in Purgatory get "stuck" is in heaven after the time in Purgatory is over.

Janice

 

[Rhamiel]

Dear Catholic friends,

I watched a program on TV recently about demon possession, oppression, and infestation. There was a distinction made between demons/evil spirits; and other spirits which could be the souls in Purgatory. There was a Catholic Priest on the program; and the subject matter seemed to be discussed from a Catholic point of view--though I could be mistaken.

So, do Catholics believe the souls in Purgatory can appear to the living or somehow get "stuck" in a certain place causing what some people would refer to as a "haunting"?

Thank you,
Anna

differant saints have had visions of specific souls in purgatory asking for prayers, one story in particular was of a person who jumped off a tower to kill themself but repented while falling, the person who had the vision fasted and prayed and then a month latter had a vision of that person in heaven.
and i have heard of a priest who was called visiting a monestary that had "haunting" like activity in one of the rooms that three nuns had died in, he held a mass for their the departed nuns and the hauntings stoped

allso, this is just fiction, but the how the ghost in Hamlet is described sounds kind of like Purgatory, like he was suffering and could not rest untill justice was done, now Shakespear was not a theologen, but it does show that the idea was in the popular culture of the time
i do not really know how there could be a distinction between demons and evil spirits though... i thought those were the same thing?

so, I would say that it is possible, but not very common, a lot of time so called "ghosts" are demons or even just natural events that people mistake for the supernatural

the visions of the saints or visions of the souls in purgatory, would not be by the power of the dead person, but rather be allowed by God for some reason

 

[Anna Scott]

AFAIK, no soul in Purgatory is stuck in any place. We do not believe in ghosts. However, any soul could do whatever God wanted. So, if God wanted a soul from Purgatory to appear to someone who was alive, then it would happen. But we have no recording of this ever happening.

The only place the souls in Purgatory get "stuck" is in heaven after the time in Purgatory is over.

Janice

Janice,

I hope to be "stuck" in Heaven, too.

differant saints have had visions of specific souls in purgatory asking for prayers, one story in particular was of a person who jumped off a tower to kill themself but repented while falling, the person who had the vision fasted and prayed and then a month latter had a vision of that person in heaven.
and i have heard of a priest who was called visiting a monestary that had "haunting" like activity in one of the rooms that three nuns had died in, he held a mass for their the departed nuns and the hauntings stoped

allso, this is just fiction, but the how the ghost in Hamlet is described sounds kind of like Purgatory, like he was suffering and could not rest untill justice was done, now Shakespear was not a theologen, but it does show that the idea was in the popular culture of the time
i do not really know how there could be a distinction between demons and evil spirits though... i thought those were the same thing?

so, I would say that it is possible, but not very common, a lot of time so called "ghosts" are demons or even just natural events that people mistake for the supernatural

the visions of the saints or visions of the souls in purgatory, would not be by the power of the dead person, but rather be allowed by God for some reason

Catholicbybirth & Rhamiel,

Thank you both so much for your responses.

As for a distinction between demons and evil spirits; I don't think the priests made a distinction. That was my own language in trying to ask the question.

Visions of souls in purgatory and heaven are very interesting. What reading would you suggest on "visions" or "presence" of departed souls?

It's interesting, because before I saw this particular program; my sister and I had a discussion about the presence/appearance of demons vs. departed souls. We could understand demonic activity, but we were wondering if departed souls could actually appear to the living. We wondered if demons appear, taking on the appearance of a departed loved-one (for example), or if the departed loved-one was actually appearing. I suppose both situations could occur. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks so much,
Anna

 

[Defensor Christi]

I had a Priest relay to me once, and I agree...that certain souls could be doing their purgatory on this plane...i.e ghosts, in a house for example. Perhaps the departed soul has an inordinate connection to a place or thing that they must release themselves from before moving on.

Just a thought...nothing proclaimed by the Church however...

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I believe souls in Purgatory are too business hitting the nightclubs to be going around spooking people.

 

[Anna Scott]

I had a Priest relay to me once, and I agree...that certain souls could be doing their purgatory on this plane...i.e ghosts, in a house for example. Perhaps the departed soul has an inordinate connection to a place or thing that they must release themselves from before moving on.

Just a thought...nothing proclaimed by the Church however...

Defensor Christi,

Very interesting. Thank you.

Anna

 

[Anna Scott]

I believe souls in Purgatory are too business hitting the nightclubs to be going around spooking people.

Cosmic Charlie,

Unusual comment.

(btw, your Avatar is scaring me. )

Anna

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Why does the RCC believe in purgatory at all? I still see no evidence for it. (I've seen the so called proof texts, they don't prove purgatory, to me anyway.)

 

[Defensor Christi]

Why does the RCC believe in purgatory at all? I still see no evidence for it. (I've seen the so called proof texts, they don't prove purgatory, to me anyway.)

If (God forbid) you should die right this moment...could you enter into the presence of God as you are? Or would you need to change in some fashion?

Here is a good link: http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=3302&CFID=17161885&CFTOKEN=60046637

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Cosmic Charlie,

Unusual comment.

(btw, your Avatar is scaring me. )

Anna

Check it out:

Who's likely in Purgatory ?

Let's run it down....


1) Miles Davis
2) Sara Vaughn
3) Jerry Garcia
4) Billie Holiday (hopefully she made it - I have doubts)
5) All the members of the Rat Pack including Frank Sinatra
6) Janice Joplin
7) Most of Lynryd Skynyd (not my glass of bourbon but still...)
8) Glen Miller, Count Basie and Benny Goodman (ok, maybe not Benny, he might have gone straight to heaven)

Anyway, you get the idea - The nightclub action must be FANTASTIC

 

[Osage Bluestem]

If (God forbid) you should die right this moment...could you enter into the presence of God as you are? Or would you need to change in some fashion?

Here is a good link: Library : How To Argue the Existence of Purgatory - Catholic Culture

If I died right now I would go to be with Christ because I have been declared justified by God because of the imputed righteousness of Christ to me through his blood that I received by faith God gave me. When God sees me he sees his beloved son, Jesus.

 

[Basil the Great]

I have read that some Catholic theologians in the Middle Ages speculated that maybe ghosts were souls trapped in Limbo. Such does seem like a real possibility.

 

[Defensor Christi]

If I died right now I would go to be with Christ because I have been declared justified by God because of the imputed righteousness of Christ to me through his blood that I received by faith God gave me. When God sees me he sees his beloved son, Jesus.

So you would be okay with entering into the presence of God with all your imperfections and propensity to sin? Or are you without sin or the desire for sin?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

So you would be okay with entering into the presence of God with all your imperfections and propensity to sin? Or are you without sin or the desire for sin?

I can go in the presence of God confident I am clothed in the righteousness of Christ and justified. God will fully sanctify my soul at the moment of death, and will fully glorify my entire being at the moment of the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

 

[Defensor Christi]

I can go in the presence of God confident I am clothed in the righteousness of Christ and justified. God will fully sanctify my soul at the moment of death, and will fully glorify my entire being at the moment of the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

BOOM! Purgatory!! Thanks for playing!!

 

[Osage Bluestem]

BOOM! Purgatory!! Thanks for playing!!

I believe final sanctification is an instantaneous miraculous work of God and not done through a place of suffering. Christ suffered once and for al for our sins. Sanctification is progressive in this world and immediate and full at the moment of death. I see no evidence of a place for drawing out the sanctification of departed souls.

 

[Defensor Christi]

I believe final sanctification is an instantaneous miraculous work of God and not done through a place of suffering. Christ suffered once and for al for our sins. Sanctification is progressive in this world and immediate and full at the moment of death. I see no evidence of a place for drawing out the sanctification of departed souls.

Purgatory is the final santification process...you agree that something must be done before you can enter into Heaven? You cannot go as you are...you cannot bring your dirty rags and filth into heaven, you must first be cleansed...or PURGED of this waste...i.e: Purgatory.

BTW: what does immediate mean in eternity? For that matter, how would it be drawn out? Time does not exist as we know it outside this plane...just a thought.

 

[Defensor Christi]

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Purgatory

Catholic doctrine

Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.
The faith of the Church concerning purgatory is clearly expressed in the Decree of Union drawn up by the Council of Florence (Mansi, t. XXXI, col. 1031), and in the decree of the Council of Trent which (Sess. XXV) defined:

"Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has from the Sacred Scriptures and the ancient tradition of the Fathers taught in Councils and very recently in this Ecumenical synod (Sess. VI, cap. XXX; Sess. XXII cap.ii, iii) that there is a purgatory, and that the souls therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar; the Holy Synod enjoins on the Bishops that they diligently endeavor to have the sound doctrine of the Fathers in Councils regarding purgatory everywhere taught and preached, held and believed by the faithful" (Denzinger, "Enchiridon", 983).

Further than this the definitions of the Church do not go, but the tradition of the Fathers and the Schoolmen must be consulted to explain the teachings of the councils, and to make clear the belief and the practices of the faithful.

Temporal punishment
That temporal punishment is due to sin, even after the sin itself has been pardoned by God, is clearly the teaching of Scripture. God indeed brought man out of his first disobedience and gave him power to govern all things (Wisdom 10:2), but still condemned him "to eat his bread in the sweat of his brow" until he returned unto dust. God forgave the incredulity of Moses and Aaron, but in punishment kept them from the "land of promise" (Numbers 20:12). The Lord took away the sin of David, but the life of the child was forfeited because David had made God's enemies blaspheme His Holy Name (2 Samuel 12:13-14). In the New Testament as well as in the Old, almsgiving and fasting, and in general penitential acts are the real fruits of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Luke 17:3; 3:3). The whole penitential system of the Church testifies that the voluntary assumption of penitential works has always been part of true repentance and the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, can. xi) reminds the faithful that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin, and this doctrine involves as its necessary consequence a belief that the sinner failing to do penance in this life may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God.

Venial sins
All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious violation of God's law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God's presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are too pure, to behold evil" (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of purgatory.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Purgatory is the final santification process...you agree that something must be done before you can enter into Heaven? You cannot go as you are...you cannot bring your dirty rags and filth into heaven, you must first be cleansed...or PURGED of this waste...i.e: Purgatory.

BTW: what does immediate mean in eternity? For that matter, how would it be drawn out? Time does not exist as we know it outside this plane...just a thought.

Well, it's like this I believe, if you're in Christ you are justified and right wth God, when you die, you are sanctified and have no more inclination toward sin at all. When you're glorified your incorrupt soul is in your incorrupt body forever. At death it's like this alive/in God's presence sanctified no discernable time passage in between death = instant.

Thank you for explaining your doctrine to me.