Do believe the presence of christ in the Holy Eucharist

[niwde]

Do u believe in it
i sure do
what about you

 

[VOW]

To Niwde:

It's why I'm Catholic!

Thank God for the Real Presence!


Peace,
~VOW

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Why do you all believe that the bread and wine actually turns to blood and flesh?

Just wondering, since as a methodist all my life, it was presented as a symbolic transformation, not an actual one.

I would like to know the truth about this, so hopefully your reasons will help me.

 

[KC Catholic]

The best place to start is:

John 6: 35-69 ..this is the "Bread of Life" discourse.

Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.
36
But I told you that although you have seen (me), you do not believe.
37
Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me,
38
because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
39
And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day.
40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."
41
The Jews murmured about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven,"
42
and they said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph? Do we not know his father and mother? Then how can he say, 'I have come down from heaven'?"
43
Jesus answered and said to them, "Stop murmuring 18 among yourselves.
44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day.
45
It is written in the prophets: 'They shall all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me.
46
Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father.
47
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
48
I am the bread of life.
49
Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;
50
this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.
51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
52
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"
53
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."
59
These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
60
20 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"
61
Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you?
62
What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 21
63
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
64
But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
65
And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father."
66
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
67
Jesus then said to the Twelve, "Do you also want to leave?"
68
Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69
We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God."

sOuljah - This for me is the key to the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Jesus confirmed this passage with the Last Supper "This is my body, this is my blood, take and eat...etc..etc."

The interesting piece that usually draws questions is when this is dismissed as metaphoric or a symbolic teaching of Christ.

Christ was being very literal here as opposed to when he told parables. He had to explain the parables so the disciples understood the hidden meaning, yet with this passage Jesus doesn't explain anything.

In fact, he reinterates his statement over and over again, which upset several followers who left him that day. He emphasizes the meaning by saying "Amen, Amen" - which in Hebrew saying amen more than once means "I am very serious about what I am telling you. This is very important."

Man...I wish I could go to mass today! Its a wonderful gift from Christ and one of the first things that drew me to convert.

Peace.

 

[niwde]

as i know anglican and methodist have the holy Eucharist
which the most important thing
a lot of anti christ(those people who worship that fellow)
come to these churches and take the body of christ to the other kind of churches
there was a priest here who was gifted to heal people conducted healing session(large scale)other the session he would say mass
because it is a large scale session,so people from other faiths will come to see and to be healed(except muslims)
including 'those' people(bad people)
some of them will come out during the distribution of communion nad receive it but not eat it
they will then exit and go to their church
because it is a large scale even there are wardens to maintain the order
some wardens are in charge of observing people whether people who come up and receive the communion consume it on the spot or not
they found out that some do not so they followed him
secretly
they found out that the man when to the other kind of church which was hidden
no one is allowed to enter unless u know the password
finally they when and told the priest
the priest prayed over them for the protection of the holy spirit and sent them to rescue the host from that church
they put up some shows to get into the "church"
shockingly the "mass" in that"church" is the same like the catholic church but worshipping devil only
instead of praising god,they praised devil
that guy who was sent cried when he saw it
but managed to rescue and escape

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

KC Catholic-

Thanks! That settles it for me. While reading the scripture I had the same respons of "but isnt he just being symbolic?" but your comments at the end helped resolve the question to me...thanks!

But, does Jesus say elsewhere that priests can change into into His flesh/blood? How do I know that what I eat on Sunday is the real deal, so to speak?

 

[niwde]

this shows that even satan worshippers believe that that the little host is the body of christ
what more as christians
should we doubt
as KC qouted up there
i do not want to add anything
all of this is from scripture
i can relate a miracle of the transformation from bread to body
it is true and happened in italy in the 14 or 15 century in a town called lanciano
a priest doubted about the presence of christ during consecration
but when he lowered his hands it transformed in to flesh with dripping blood,then he look in to the calice and found that the wine had changed into blood
he got so frigten and ran away leaving the blood stains behind
everybody accepted it as an miracle
then now when there are scientific provings
some scientist took a sample of it and analysed it and found ou that it belong to the homo sapien race(human)from the middle east(DNA trackings)the tissue is a muscle tissue from the ventricle chamber of the heart(right or left,i dun know)the blood and flesh contains elements that are found in our body like phosphorus,calsuim and blah blah blah
the DNA found in the sample is identical with the DNA found in the shroud of turin
till date that flesh hadn't been rotten
and u can still see it in that very church in lanciano,italy
i plan to go there if i nave the money



about the priest from malaysia
his nephew is my schoolmate

 

[VOW]

To Souljah:

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus established the Priesthood from His Apostles. His intention was to build a framework of leadership for His Church. It is through this Apostolic Succession that the powers of the priesthood are bestowed upon those chosen by God. A Bishop anoints a priest and confers the Holy Orders upon the ministerial candidate. (dunno if I have the terminology correct, but you get the gist of it!)

The priest then serves in place of Jesus at the Mass, when he calls down the Holy Spirit. We are all at the Last Supper, and Jesus blesses the Bread and the Wine, and it is transformed into the actual Body and Blood of our Savior. This is the miracle of Transubstantiation, and Catholics call the Consecrated Bread and Wine the "Real Presence" of Jesus.

When we receive Communion, we touch God.

The Office of Priesthood also enables the priest to stand in place of God during Confession. When we tell our sins, we are actually bringing them to God. And through the power of the Holy Spirit, the priest can then absolve the sins, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. The priest does nothing, it is God Himself who forgives us.

Powerful stuff!



Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by VOW
To Souljah:

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus established the Priesthood from His Apostles. His intention was to build a framework of leadership for His Church. It is through this Apostolic Succession that the powers of the priesthood are bestowed upon those chosen by God. A Bishop anoints a priest and confers the Holy Orders upon the ministerial candidate. (dunno if I have the terminology correct, but you get the gist of it!)

The priest then serves in place of Jesus at the Mass, when he calls down the Holy Spirit. We are all at the Last Supper, and Jesus blesses the Bread and the Wine, and it is transformed into the actual Body and Blood of our Savior. This is the miracle of Transubstantiation, and Catholics call the Consecrated Bread and Wine the "Real Presence" of Jesus.

When we receive Communion, we touch God.

The Office of Priesthood also enables the priest to stand in place of God during Confession. When we tell our sins, we are actually bringing them to God. And through the power of the Holy Spirit, the priest can then absolve the sins, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. The priest does nothing, it is God Himself who forgives us.

Powerful stuff!



Peace be with you,
~VOW

Makes sense, but what basis does the Catholic church have for:

"The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus established the Priesthood from His Apostles."

Just wondering where it came from...

 

[VOW]

To Souljah:

I have a sneaking suspicion the "documentation" for all the priesthood duties is in Sacred Tradition. But the PRECEDENCE for the Apostles to have duties above and beyond that of the congregation of believers is Scriptural.

One such indication was after the Resurrection, when Jesus meets with the eleven Disciples, and He breathes on them and says, "Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven. Whose sins you retain are retained." Jesus ONLY DID that with the eleven remaining disciples. And the Catholic Church teaches that is the origin of the power of the priesthood to grant absolution of sins in Confession.

In Acts of the Apostles, Peter takes a leadership role and calls for an election to replace Judas as an Apostle. This is indicative that the Apostleship is a select role, and that the continuation of it is critical to the Church.

It wasn't until the Pentecost, when the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, that they were finally able to take all the teachings of Jesus and put them together in a coherent package. Up until then, the "Bread of Life" discourse in John was just a puzzlement. And the Apostles were in awe over the entire sequence of events of the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, and the Ascension of Jesus. But at the Pentecost, the "Bread of Life" discourse became clear when they recalled the EXTREMELY confusing words that Jesus said at the Last Supper.

Remember too, that after the Resurrection, Jesus even met with some of the Disciples, and they didn't even recognize him until he broke the bread at table.

We'll drag Wolseley in here to give us some information from the Early Church Fathers.

Bless you in your search, Souljah!


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Thanks VOW, that it some interesting info.

One more question...why do you think they didn't recognize Him? I have always wondered about that passage...

 

[VOW]

To Souljah:

My PERSONAL opinion is that He wanted them to see Him break the bread, to make an association between Him and the Bread.

I'll tell you something from my heart, Souljah: I've studied the Church ever since I converted, over twenty years ago. And sometimes I'm made breathless by the incredible discoveries of the teachings. There is a richness in Catholicism that I've never seen anywhere else. It seems you can study, and study, and study, and still find new and incredible things. It's like a huge jigsaw puzzle, you can spend a lifetime working it, and every single piece you pick up fits together with the whole.


Peace,
~VOW

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by VOW

It seems you can study, and study, and study, and still find new and incredible things. It's like a huge jigsaw puzzle, you can spend a lifetime working it, and every single piece you pick up fits together with the whole.

I agree 100% on that idea.

 

[onesheep]

Originally posted by VOW
It seems you can study, and study, and study, and still find new and incredible things. It's like a huge jigsaw puzzle, you can spend a lifetime working it, and every single piece you pick up fits together with the whole.

This applies to Scripture as well. You can study the Bible your entire life and there is always something new to learn, another puzzle piece. Scripture says that knowledge will increase.

s0uljah, the Real Presence is, most likely, the only reason I returned to Catholicism. I'm one of the "marginal" Catholics.

 

[Avila]

A little late, but I definitely do believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist. It was a bit difficult to understand at first, but I'm glad I stuck with it. s0uljah, you are on the right track!

 

[jukesk9]

Yes I do! Hey KC, How are you getting all those cool avatars?

 

[ZooMom]

Believing in the True Presence is not something I can do on my own. I accept it on Faith, but I believe it through God's Grace. It is truly a miracle and a mystery. It touches me so deeply. It is so hard to put into words the combination of awe and fear and grief and joy that I feel when I receive Christ in the Eucharist. It overwhelms me every time.

 

[niwde]

for us who are catholics
we do not need signs to make us believe
it is only true faith that made us believed

if other people want us to show prove
certainly there are tones of evidence,evewitness accounts,
miracle in lanciano
they can't deny it

there was a man who doubted this truth met blessed john of mantova,he asked exactly what you have asked,that is does the priest have the power to change the bread and wine into body and blood
blessed jon said'come' and took the man to a fountain.he took a cup of water from there and gave the man to drink

the man was surprised and told blessed john he had nver tasted such an excellent wine
then blessed john said"if through,a miserable man,the water is changed to wine by divine power,why will you not believe that by means of the words of the priest which are the divine words first spoken by our lord,the bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of christ?"

this miracle was enough to convert the man,he believe and did penance for his sins

if god can make miracles of which we know ,why can't He also work the miracle of being really present in the mass?
do not doubt the truth,God can do all things,and every day,in every mass,he works this greatest of miracles by means of the priest

 

[KC Catholic]

Originally posted by jukesk9
Yes I do! Hey KC, How are you getting all those cool avatars?

I dunno.

Find pictures, download them, re-size them and put them back on line!

You can upload personal avatars.

 

[VOW]

DUH!

I just noticed KC's no longer Barney Fife, but Superman.

Golly, he's so VERSATILE!!!


Peace,
~VOW