Here's a thought, ask your average Christian if they can prove (even to themselves) that God exists, or whether they accept His existence by faith.
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No, I'm simply define somebody who calls themselves an agnostic is in fact a weak atheist. The same definition applies to almost everyone who calls themselves 'atheist'.
Not according to any modern historian. For example there's absolutely no evidence of the exodus.As for the Bible, it is a collection of books which seem to hold much accurate historical data.
Argumentum ad populum. And would you be able to cite some sources for the rest of the claim?I think the world accepts much of the old testament concerning how people migrated and which kings and pharaohs ruled around what times.
In case you're wondering, it won't help your case to show your ignorance on a topic, nor to purposely exaggerate your stance to the point it looks ignorant.
Lately I've been reading a historical/archeological bible that has a lot of very interesting things. For example, the claim that the Israelites worshiped Asherah is backed up by some artifacts and it seems that there might have been a merging of the Canaanite supreme god El with YAHWEH such that some have concluded that YAHWEH ended up with El's consort Asherah. Obviously also a lot of less interesting stuff concerning who was king when and about battles and cities.
If you feel the above is inaccurate, feel free to give a source for your claim that no modern historians think the Bible holds much accurate historical data.
Here's a thought, ask your average Christian if they can prove (even to themselves) that God exists, or whether they accept His existence by faith.
Doesn't a problem lie in, 'Where did it all come from?' Then you have The Big Bang but where did that come from?
Being naturalistic sounds hip
but once we get to the edge of where we understand nature to be things get weird.
Such as with String Theory. Do you consider those other dimensions, if they exist, as part of nature?
I don't believe in magic either but I think there is a lot more to 'it' than meets the eye.
Wrong. It takes a whole lot of faith in being the follower of the guys that tell you atheism is sensible. Pure faith founded on emotionalism. Pessimism is hardly logic.
Ok, here´s an aspect that - as far as I can tell - hasn´t been brought up in the discussion and possibly helps you get a clearer view on why many agnostics also call themselves "atheists" (without explicitly stating that there´s no god and/or that they believe there is not god):It requires no faith to be agnostic. To admit you don't know is fine. But to say you believe there is no God is to make a statement of faith.
I wasn´t aware that being an atheist required me to have come to this conclusion. Thus, I am wondering whether and why you are so eager to side-track from your original question.If you use critical thinking, I fail to see how you could come to the conclusion that human beings came from small chemical reactions in a sludge akin to oil.
You are welcome to show how it does.God makes sense.
If you use critical thinking, I fail to see how you could come to the conclusion that human beings came from small chemical reactions in a sludge akin to oil.
Or that a tree can be from anything but the seed it was predestined from.
You got me all wrong if you think throwing logic at me will make me scurry away.
God makes sense.
Laughable? I just don't see too many happy atheists. Complaints, complaints, complaints.
That old canard? When do we get the flying spaghetti monter routine?
Wrong. It takes a whole lot of faith in being the follower of the guys that tell you atheism is sensible. Pure faith founded on emotionalism. Pessimism is hardly logic.
Dirt does not look like an accident bumping into other things in the dark making the situation that makes dirt. But alas atheism tells us just that.
= nothing as its cause? Absurdity fashioned into the ancient cult of every religion without an origin story for their deity.
I don't even get the atheists being happy/unhappy angle anyway. Personal, temporary emotional states have no bearing on the factuality of something.
Hm. After reading the posts by the Christians in this thread, I have come back to the same conclusion to which I most often arrive regarding why people believe in god.
Random Christian: "So, you just think it/we/everything all just came from nothing?"
This is the same thing I see repeatedly here, and in everyday life. Do you, my atheist and agnostic friends, think that I am correct in saying that some people have such a desperate need to know the origins of life and the universe that they feel that they have no other choice than to insert god as the originator simply because some answer is better than no answer? Are some people really so uncomfortable with the unknown? It honestly looks that way to me, but I have to ask, "Why?" What is so terribly wrong with not knowing? To me, in a way, it's a little exciting!
I think that's ultimately part of it, but...consider the bravery and knowledge it takes to get to a point where that can feel exciting. If you've been told all your life that, without that knowledge, you'd become a murder and rapist, and probably start drinking baby blood as a midmorning snack...well, accepting that unknown and seeing how it affects you will probably take more bravery than the average person has.
HahYep, reality can suck sometimes. Wear a helmet.
I agree with you wholeheartedly - people have an insatiable need to explain the unknown. So long as there's something between them and the terrible, yawning abyss, they're happy believing that the abyss simply doesn't exist.Hm. After reading the posts by the Christians in this thread, I have come back to the same conclusion to which I most often arrive regarding why people believe in god.
Random Christian: "So, you just think it/we/everything all just came from nothing?"
This is the same thing I see repeatedly here, and in everyday life. Do you, my atheist and agnostic friends, think that I am correct in saying that some people have such a desperate need to know the origins of life and the universe that they feel that they have no other choice than to insert god as the originator simply because some answer is better than no answer? Are some people really so uncomfortable with the unknown? It honestly looks that way to me, but I have to ask, "Why?" What is so terribly wrong with not knowing? To me, in a way, it's a little exciting!
Hm. After reading the posts by the Christians in this thread, I have come back to the same conclusion to which I most often arrive regarding why people believe in god.
Random Christian: "So, you just think it/we/everything all just came from nothing?"
This is the same thing I see repeatedly here, and in everyday life. Do you, my atheist and agnostic friends, think that I am correct in saying that some people have such a desperate need to know the origins of life and the universe that they feel that they have no other choice than to insert god as the originator simply because some answer is better than no answer? Are some people really so uncomfortable with the unknown? It honestly looks that way to me, but I have to ask, "Why?" What is so terribly wrong with not knowing? To me, in a way, it's a little exciting!
Perhaps some of them, but I think that mostly it is an attempt to prove God. This is also why many are so hostile to when science attempts to explain these things (evolution, BB, etc), which would not make sense for someone who was afraid of the unknown but makes perfect sense for someone trying to prove something.
Well, of course knowledge is a threat to the belief in god. Ever heard the phrase "God of the Gaps"? As science fills in the holes in our knowledge base, things that were once attributed to god are then explained through natural phenomena. The bigger science grows, the smaller god gets - or so it seems.
If I put myself in the shoes of a believer, I would most likely feel threatened also.
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