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I see all moral statements as statements of like and dislike. The sentence "Murder is wrong." is actually "I don't like murder.". Any statement of this type is inherently subjective. Therefore, I think all moral statements are subjective.
Trying to attach objectivity to moral statements results in an endless series of "why" questions:
Pretty much everyone can agree that the death camps were an atrocity, right? And yet, the people who ran these camps were *perfectly* convinced that they were doing the right thing
Nope. It's fanatism that makes atrocities possible, over and over again: the sort of unwavering conviction of one's own righteousness, pitted against the perceived evil of one's chosen enemy. A black-and-white world, that's what it takes to justify the wholesale slaughter of thousands, children included.Wow Jane; and you live in Germany? This is off the charts wrong.
When Christians usually talk about objective morals, they tend to mean that, "Lying is always a sin, no if ans or buts, it may be better to lie about the jews in your basement to the Nazi's, but it's still lying and still a sin."
Wow Jane; and you live in Germany? This is off the charts wrong.
Good post. Agree.Morallity doesn't require scripture or God or any of that BS!
-Is it moral to cause everyone in the universe unending pain and torment for-ever for no reason?-
Obviously it's wrong to do this, unless you change the meaning of the word moral or introduce a BUT... In this situation I think there is an objective 'morally right' answer.
Good post. Agree.
As an aside, I wonder whether our brains are too big? Other animals don't seem to have anywhere near our habits of pre-meditated killing. Other animals seem to fight and kill as a means to meet a real-time, immediate need. Like "I and my family need food now and you are it". Even mating ruts don't usually end in death - the fight seems to stop as soon as one side backs off. Homo Sapiens, on the other hand, seem to use their imaginations to motivate killing. I will kill you because I think you are a future threat to me. I will kill you because you look different from me and I imagine that is a future threat. Something bad happened and I imagine you did it so I am going to kill you for revenge/prevention of a repeat. revenge is an interesting one - I am not sure what the psychology of it is but I have never heard of other animals acting out of revenge.
Well, I think the idea is that there must be energy and matter to begin with. The energy animates the matter. It is then possible for animated matter to form structures that become self-replicating. It's not so much that matter deliberately forms self-replicating structures - there is no deliberate - it is that matter forms all sorts of structures and the self-replicating ones necessarily become more common. It just needs a long, long time to bake and as soon as one structure can replicate it spreads. But all the time there must be a source of energy. That would be the sun.Science is after the fact not before, so where does it all originate from then there is the sustain ability factor? Just in-like playing with a chemist set.....it doesn't miraculously appear and keep variably changing to sustain life that first must show up! There is a creator and sustain-er! Just build a car, fuel it up, get to run.....will it sustain itself?
I think people exhibited moral behaviours before they could read and write or speak. My theory is that our basic moral behaviours are genetically programmed and are managed by our emotional brain. So we feel either motivated or reluctant to do things. A mother normally feels protective to her baby. So the written down morals we use today are the codification of those innate emotional responses with some adjustments for group benefit that we figured out with our cognitive brains.We use relational spectrum as our guide to life......referencing scales in all of life even morality.....we can all say that killing a new born is wrong, but where does that perspective come from? God is the author on morality......in our moral laws..... personally, individually and socially!! Can you you explain the reality of evil? And is their such a thing as good? If you say their is such a thing as good you then are injecting a moral giver! Also if there is such a thing as sin....what do you do with it?
You assume everything first and deal with after the fact assumptions! Where does space time and matter come from? And for sure the energy in the first place and the energy that is sustained....which sustains us all ? Your morality is held up to what what standard and by who's.......Where is the beginning of it all? You and I use situations in perspective in the very essences of Good, but where does good come from? Designed genetics....programed DNA....hmmmm sounds impossible without a creator. Who makes the rules?Well, I think the idea is that there must be energy and matter to begin with. The energy animates the matter. It is then possible for animated matter to form structures that become self-replicating. It's not so much that matter deliberately forms self-replicating structures - there is no deliberate - it is that matter forms all sorts of structures and the self-replicating ones necessarily become more common. It just needs a long, long time to bake and as soon as one structure can replicate it spreads. But all the time there must be a source of energy. That would be the sun.
A car can't sustain itself because it is not designed to nor has it been selected from a pool of designs for its ability to self-sustain.
You may well ask where did the energy and matter come from in the first place and my scientific reply is: I have no idea.
I think people exhibited moral behaviours before they could read and write or speak. My theory is that our basic moral behaviours are genetically programmed and are managed by our emotional brain. So we feel either motivated or reluctant to do things. A mother normally feels protective to her baby. So the written down morals we use today are the codification of those innate emotional responses with some adjustments for group benefit that we figured out with our cognitive brains.
It is very complicated because our instinctive responses, which exist to protect us from perceived danger, aren't all optimum for modern society living. So we have to moderate ourselves by trying to abide by codes that we interpret rationally. But our emotions are much stronger than our rationalizations so it helps us a lot if we can anchor the counter-instinctive codes to a "safe" emotional concept.
I'm not sure I have described that clearly. I don't fully understand it.
Trivial example. Bungee jump. I've done this! Standing on the edge of that bridge in New Zealand ready to jump. Legs tied to a perfectly safe cord, the length adjusted for my body weight, the rig used many many times everyday of the week without anyone being injured. Rational brain perfectly happy. Emotional brain was convinced I would die! I was shaking, sweating, feeling sick and dizzy. My legs felt heavy as lead. It took me many deep breaths and a sustained conscious struggle to placate my instinctive emotional response enough for my emotional brain to allow my motor controls to move my legs. It was the most intense and invigorating sensation. Thrilling, perplexing and terrifying. After I eventually managed to leap it was one of the most thrilling and satisfying things I have done. I was just laughing uncontrollably as I recoiled a few feet above the river's surface. What a total rush. I recommend it to anyone!
I've only done a bungee jump once. I suppose if I tried it again I would still be terrified. The more you repeat it and survive, the less your instincts hold you back. Instincts learn very slowly and you cannot just tell them what's what. You have to show them, it seems.
Well. I am not assuming energy and matter existed 14 billion years ago. This is evidenced.You assume everything first and deal with after the fact assumptions! Where does space time and matter come from? And for sure the energy in the first place and the energy that is sustained....which sustains us all ?
I added more to the previous post so check it out if you like. Decay and after the fact assumptions points to the complexity of a creator! What separated light from darkness? I call these dials of life: 19 to 21% oxygen one degree over or under we wouldn't exist. The distance from the sun, one mile over or under we wouldn't exist. The earth axles is 23.5%, one degree over or under we wouldn't exist. Salt of the ocean 3.5%. Our Blood salt content is also 3.5% and not one builds on the other! On and On!Well. I am not assuming energy and matter existed 14 billion years ago. This is evidenced.
You are quite right that I have no idea where the energy and matter came from before that. That does not matter to me with respect to the evolution of life on Earth.
Regarding sustained energy, the sun has not always been the way it is now, of course. It is losing matter all the time, turning matter into energy by nuclear fusion. It is fusing hydrogen into helium and it is currently about 3/4 hydrogen. I think the estimate is another 5 billion years before it becomes unstable and turns into a red giant, probably incinerating Earth. So we had better make sure we have moved somewhere else by then!
I added more to the previous post so check it out if you like. Decay and after the fact assumptions points to the complexity of a creator! What separated light from darkness? I call these dials of life: 19 to 21% oxygen one degree over or under we wouldn't exist. The distance from the sun, one mile over or under we wouldn't exist. The earth axles is 23.5%, one degree over or under we wouldn't exist. Salt of the ocean 3.5%. Our Blood salt content is also 3.5% and not one builds on the other! On and On!
Who calculated the volume of air of the earth?What made the varying degrees of elements coexist....what put together all of it....one miracle after another. Biologically, chemicals, matter and energy......on and on? The more we come to realize the more we realize we don't know. We don't get smart we get dumber about the complexity of our existence! There is so much knowledge out there we don't know, but we think we know it all! THE WONDER OF GOD! God can only fill your wonder of the mind and heart. We as children used to be easily razzled dazzled in the awe of life and now have become deadened in the heavenly realm of life given! Takes more to surprise you the older you get! God surprises me and gives me that joy the worldly people so desperately need!
For I think there I am! Surprise surprise here I am....I just miraculously showed up...!
The complexity of individual cells that coexist separately but in community of our body is mind boggling in ourselves! Where is your wonder my man? You first have to have a cause before effect of your assumptions!! You can't know the truth of the universe until you know how it all started.....began!
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