Do Any Other Religions Boast Such A Claim?

[SanFrank]

Wahhabi Islam is an extremist sect, and not mainstream.

and?

SanFrank, do you only dislike Muslim role models or all non-Christian role models?

Where does dislike come in? First they need to name a role model in our day and age whom young muslims look up to for moral/ethical guidance.

The quote from you that I was responding to in post#55 went like this: No one can find a role model in islam.

That's blatenly not true. One needs not dig very deep to find many from the Islamic tradition who are role models in millions of households through out the globe. Rumi is but one.

Thats saying that everyone on an individual level is a role model to their kids in their own homes but that is not what I was asking.

 

[dlamberth]

Where does dislike come in? First they need to name a role model in our day and age whom young muslims look up to for moral/ethical guidance.

You know, I'm unable to think of any Christians who fit your guidelines...outside of the Pope that is. And I wouldn't be surprised if you rejected him as a moral role model.

I know for myself all of the Christians whom I look up to for guidance are all long dead.

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[dlamberth]

Thats saying that everyone on an individual level is a role model to their kids in their own homes but that is not what I was asking.

And that's not what I was responding to either.

.

 

[SanFrank]

You know, I'm unable to think of any Christians who fit your guidelines...outside of the Pope that is. And I wouldn't be surprised if you rejected him as a moral role model.

Now thats not very nice. I like some of the things the christian pope says and many youth look up to him. This example would serve to expose the unpopularity of the khomeni in iran if you were to compare the two.

I know for myself all of the Christians whom I look up to for guidance are all long dead.

.

How about christian music artists. There are hundreds and their lyrics have hidden christian messages that are morally uplifting. Switchfoot; Skillet; Buddy Greene

Any islamic based singers who offer moral values in their music, if any. Please help point some out. Id like to hear it.

 

[dlamberth]

Any islamic based singers who offer moral values in their music, if any. Please help point some out. Id like to hear it.

Nasrat Fateh Ali Khan, Shafqat Ali Khan, Bakshi Javed Salamat, Abida Parveen, Rahat Feteh Ali Khan.

 

[SanFrank]

Nasrat Fateh Ali Khan, Shafqat Ali Khan, Bakshi Javed Salamat, Abida Parveen, Rahat Feteh Ali Khan.

And are these artists whose music you have personally heard yourself?

 

[dlamberth]

And are these artists whose music you have personally heard yourself?

Yes. Mostly Nasrat Fateh Ali Khan though.

Also add Cat Stevens to the list.

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[Ishraqiyun]

I have to assume Rumi is the only example you can give, a man who lived 400 yrs ago.

If that's what you want to assume it's fine with me. I thought I mentioned a few other people though but it's no big deal. I usually don't spend a lot of time looking for role models. Had you asked for Christian ones I probably would have named a few more but most would all have been dead for at least a few hundred years too.

Okay. But still, how do you explain material that is un-islamic.

If you think "Islam" (your conception of "True Islam") is so bad wouldn't you consider "un-Islamic" elements (those that contradict your understanding of Islam) a positive?

Wahabi people would not approve of dancing.

Probably not. He wasn't trying to be a Wahabi though. They didn't even exist back then. He practiced Islam as it was understood by certain Sufis like his teacher Shams of Tabriz.

If they look up to rumi, they would look down on islam:

Not on Islam in general. Rumi might have looked down on certain understandings or traditions of Islam that he considered misguided but he certainly didn't look down on the Islamic tradition he practiced himself. That would be like accusing a Christian of denomination X of looking down on Christianity because they don't follow the rules of Christian denomination Y. Catholics don't follow Pentecostal traditions. Sufi's don't follow the requirements of "wahabism" and vice versa.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Yes. Mostly Nasrat Fateh Ali Khan though.

I got turned on to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan by his Remix album Star Rise. Sadly, it was released just after his death.

 

[Zoness]

Nasrat Fateh Ali Khan, Shafqat Ali Khan, Bakshi Javed Salamat, Abida Parveen, Rahat Feteh Ali Khan.

Hm...I checked out some of these guys and they are actually pretty good.

 

[Harry3142]

Christianity is not to be used as a weapon against other religions. Instead, its adherents are to live our own lives in such a way that others see us as beneficial to all around us, irregardless of their belief system.

And in order to be truly beneficial, our own code of conduct must be such that others can not only trust, but also be drawn to as comforting. There are motivations which some mistakenly accept as signs of righteousness, and even piety, which are actually signs of what we refer to as 'the sinful nature'. And it's our duty to shun those motivations, and instead welcome the motivations which are taught in Scripture as the core of a new, spiritual nature:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

Some of the motivations found listed as 'the acts of the sinful nature' are obvious to all as sinful. Others are more subtle, but no less to be shunned by Christians. Even if a person wraps a motivation from this list in the trappings of piety, it is still to be recognized as sinful.

It is only when we Christians have the motivations listed as 'the fruit of the Spirit' as the impetus for our actions that those actions conform to what God wants of us. The reason why St. Paul preached that we were free from the law was not because he believed that we could do whatever we wanted; it was because for us Christians the law was replaced by the motivations which that law is built upon. Just as we identify 'the acts of the sinful nature' as the root cause of all sinful acts, we identify 'the fruit of the Spirit' as the root cause of all righteous acts. Legalism was replaced with motivationalism. That's why the words which immediately follow the listing of the 'fruit' are, "Against such things there is no law."

 

[Zoness]

Christianity is not to be used as a weapon against other religions. Instead, its adherents are to live our own lives in such a way that others see us as beneficial to all around us, irregardless of their belief system.

And in order to be truly beneficial, our own code of conduct must be such that others can not only trust, but also be drawn to as comforting.

This whole post was well put but I'd like to specifically address this segment. People often tell me "accept the Bible, it's true and God is good". Well okay, that doesn't appeal to me much... I need a more logical reason to believe in God and lots of horrible things have been done with the Bible as the reason behind them.

Nobody sits and says "wow just look at how wonderful the evangelical conservatives in politics are! I want to adopt that lifestyle" Nobody says that! Non-Christians are going to be more receptive to messages of love and service to mankind, not some twisted hawkish political ideology or an overwhelming sense of moral superiority.

If more people recognized that, I bet there would be at least a bit fewer skeptics and some more converts.

 

[nachwaal3ab]

Well, if you're sticking to after Jesus, I have nothing to point to