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Do American Baptist Churches believe in once saved always saved?

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PrincetonGuy

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My whole point here is to show that up until AD 390, the Final Perseverance of the Saints was indeed taught and believed. And in each and every one of the ECF's quoted, they all believed that those who were saved, were always saved!

Proponents of the 16th century doctrine of eternal security, when faced with the massive amount of historical data that proves the lateness of their doctrine, play the same game with the Early Church Fathers that they play with the Gospel of John in which they take passages out of context and make them to appear to teach what they do not teach. Those of them who are fluent in the Greek language, and few of them are, know very well that in EVERY instance where John writes of believers in Christ having eternal life he uses either the Greek present tense or the Greek present participle in which the continuance of the action is stressed. That is, John writes that those persons who are continuing to believe in Christ and continuing to be obedient to Him have eternal life. They also know very well that when John writes of the faithfulness of God, he uses the indicative mood indicating an established fact and that when he writes of the faithfulness of men he uses the subjunctive mood indicating a supposition of what MIGHT prove to be. Perhaps worst of all, they take the words ‘eternal life’ and separate them from their theological context and argue that if one’s life is eternal he cannot die, when in fact the New Testament teaches that eternal life is had only in Christ in our sharing of His life with Him. It is His life that is eternal, and we possess that eternal life in Him. Those Christians who depart from Christ become severed from Him and that life. The Early Church Fathers knew this and the concept was very precious to them. Indeed, Christ was very precious to them and those Christians who chose to actively or passively depart from the Christian life were viewed by them with the utmost disdain and contempt.

Proponents of the 16th century doctrine of eternal security, when reading the Early Church Fathers, read them with the same 16th century misconception that a Christian cannot lose his salvation and they read into the passages that they are reading their own personal theology—a theology that was totally absent from the Church till the 16th Century. The only writing from before the 16th century that teach anything remotely like eternal security are found in the writings of Saint Augustine and these writings were responsible for Calvin’s erroneous beliefs regarding the sovereignty of God and the theology that these erroneous beliefs gave birth to, including the perseverance of the saints. These writings of Augustine were written late in his life when he himself began to lose faith in the power of the atonement of Christ and found himself increasingly in bondage to sin. Therefore these particular writing, known today as the Retractions of Saint Augustine, are not found in any of the bound collections of his writings. Their only value is that they help to establish that Augustine was indeed the author of some writings the authorship of which has been questioned.

And, of course, proponents of the 16th century doctrine of eternal security never quote the Early Church Fathers in the passages where they clearly and expressly write of Christians falling from grace and losing their salvation.

If you want to know what the Early Church Fathers really believed, read their works in the original language without any commentary, paying very close attention to the Greek moods and tenses that they used when writing about salvation, believing in and being obedient to Christ, and eternal life.
 
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DeaconDean

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Proponents of the 16th century doctrine of eternal security, when faced with the massive amount of historical data that proves the lateness of their doctrine, play the same game with the Early Church Fathers that they play with the Gospel of John in which they take passages out of context and make them to appear to teach what they do not teach. Those of them who are fluent in the Greek language, and few of them are, know very well that in EVERY instance where John writes of believers in Christ having eternal life he uses either the Greek present tense or the Greek present participle in which the continuance of the action is stressed. That is, John writes that those persons who are continuing to believe in Christ and continuing to be obedient to Him have eternal life. They also know very well that when John writes of the faithfulness of God, he uses the indicative mood indicating an established fact and that when he writes of the faithfulness of men he uses the subjunctive mood indicating a supposition of what MIGHT prove to be. Perhaps worst of all, they take the words ‘eternal life’ and separate them from their theological context and argue that if one’s life is eternal he cannot die, when in fact the New Testament teaches that eternal life is had only in Christ in our sharing of His life with Him. It is His life that is eternal, and we possess that eternal life in Him. Those Christians who depart from Christ become severed from Him and that life. The Early Church Fathers knew this and the concept was very precious to them. Indeed, Christ was very precious to them and those Christians who chose to actively or passively depart from the Christian life were viewed by them with the utmost disdain and contempt.

Proponents of the 16th century doctrine of eternal security, when reading the Early Church Fathers, read them with the same 16th century misconception that a Christian cannot lose his salvation and they read into the passages that they are reading their own personal theology—a theology that was totally absent from the Church till the 16th Century. The only writing from before the 16th century that teach anything remotely like eternal security are found in the writings of Saint Augustine and these writings were responsible for Calvin’s erroneous beliefs regarding the sovereignty of God and the theology that these erroneous beliefs gave birth to, including the perseverance of the saints. These writings of Augustine were written late in his life when he himself began to lose faith in the power of the atonement of Christ and found himself increasingly in bondage to sin. Therefore these particular writing, known today as the Retractions of Saint Augustine, are not found in any of the bound collections of his writings. Their only value is that they help to establish that Augustine was indeed the author of some writings the authorship of which has been questioned.

And, of course, proponents of the 16th century doctrine of eternal security never quote the Early Church Fathers in the passages where they clearly and expressly write of Christians falling from grace and losing their salvation.

If you want to know what the Early Church Fathers really believed, read their works in the original language without any commentary, paying very close attention to the Greek moods and tenses that they used when writing about salvation, believing in and being obedient to Christ, and eternal life.


What was the question the OP asked PG?

Did American Baptist churches believe in once saved always saved?

The very earliest Baptist confession, the Philadelphia Baptist Association stated in their Confession of Faith in 1742, how many years before the Declaration of Independance, that they believed and taught:

And though they may, through the temptation of Satan, and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein; whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve His Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance, and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus, to the end.

And for your information friend, I translated the Greek John Gill quotes in the ECF's quotes.

You said this was a relatively new theory not known before the 16th century. I showed that at least 19 of the ECF's believed and taught it also.

So the question has been answered, yes, early American Baptist churches did teach and believe in OSAS.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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FreeinChrist

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well.. the opening thread to this is what American Baptists believe..

and I know for a fact the American Baptist Association.. (seeing as my church is affiliated with it, and I have been on their website) believe in once saved, always saved.

And the reason they believe it, is because of scripture.. verses like.. 'being justified by teh faith of Christ'

Ephesians 2, vs 8-9

Romans 8 vs 37-39

Hebrews chapter 6

The verse in James: faith without works is dead.. is not about salvation.. but daily service

the word save in the bible has different meanings .. it can mean justification for salvation through Christ's commitment to us when we ask for forgiveness of sins.. or it can mean being rescued from trouble. This is where 'he who endures to the end will be saved' comes in.. as when you read the context it is about being rescued or delivered from trouble, not about salvation.

There is also Romans chapter 10. .. that goes through the process for salvation..

(Rom 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

that is pretty clear - no works in there.. no combination of service and salvation.

(Rom 10:10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


(Rom 10:13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

this is clear!

then you have 1 Cor 3:11-15 describing how someone who hasn't built on their salvation still goes to heaven

and these verses:


Ephesians 1:13b-14 in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

it goes on and on...


finally.... Calvinism and Arminianism are both doctrines out of the reformation.. there are independent baptist churches that reject both doctrines.. that were never part of either Protestants or Catholics

so you know..... the bible interprets itself.. and I believe (as do ALOT of other Christians.. that salvation is a free gift.. not by works that can in no way be lossed.. gained by asking Jesus to forgive you of your sins and give you eternal life.

this is the ABA position.. which is what the opening thread is related to


And with this, the OP's question has been answered. :)
 
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