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Well I got to a church that is affiliated with the American Baptist Association, so I may be able to cast some light there.
They definitely do believe in once saved always saved! In fact, they no only believe that God won't leave you, but you can't leave God either, seeing as you don't own your salvation, and God has promised to never leave you.
Salvation is simple this: asking Jesus to come into your life to forgive your sin and give you eternal life.
That is it
church membership, baptism, bible reading etc.. all come after this point (altho you could have read the bible before salvation, and been a visitor at a church)
salvation and service are seperate things.. they aren't mixed into eachother.. salvation is a free gift, not by works, can in no way be lossed thru Christ's commitment to us.. service is anything we do after salvation to serve God.. daily salvation. We don't HAVE to do anything after salvation.. there are no strings.
American Baptist Association teaching also rejects calvinism and arminianism.
The other thing is.. you won't find the ABA calling themselves are denomination.. since they don't believe in a universal church.. either invisible or visible.. they believe church always to be a local assembly or congregation of saved baptised believers, with Jesus as the Head of each independent church.
So there you go
from
NZguy
(I don't know if the ABA is the same as what is listed in the forum under American Baptists)
http://www.abc-usa.org/but that is the ABA.. which I think is different to the American Baptists described in the forum
Hi everyone.Does the denomination of the American Baptists believe in once saved always saved or not? Thanks!
wait a second.. churches that believe Jesus is God.. and salvation is unconditionally secure have been around since Jesus formed His church with the disciples!
There have always been Christian churches seperate from Catholicism right from the start who believed in the soverienty of Christ..
The only reason you don't see alot about them.. is because their records have been mostly, and intentionaly destroyed by Catholic and Protestant churches!
Clement of Rome gives plain hints of the firmness of true faith, and the perseverance of the saints in it to the end. When addressing the members of the church at Corinth, he says? Who has dwelt among you, that has not had an experience of, or proved, ten panareton kai bebaian umon pistin, your all-powerful, and firm or stable faith? He also observes,that whereas it is the will of God, that all whom he loves should partake of repentance, and so not perish with the unbelieving and impenitent, esterizen to pantokratoriko boulemati autou, he has established it by his almighty will. But if any of those whom God wills should partake of the grace of repentance, should afterwards perish, where is his almighty will? And how is this matter settled and established by such a will of his?
Ibid.Ignatius also is a witness to this most comfortable truth of the gospel, when he exhorts the saints to avoid those evil excrescences which bring forth deadly fruit, of which whoever tastes dies; for they are not the Fathers planting; for if they were, the branches of the cross would appear, kai en auto karpos autos aphthartos, and their fruit would be incorruptible; whereby through his sufferings he hath called you, being his members, ou dunatai ouk kophale choris gennethenai aneu melon, for the head cannot be born, or be, without the members. And in another place he says, No man professing faith, sins; nor having obtained love, hates. The tree is known by its fruit. So they that profess to be Christians shall be seen by what they do; for now it is not the business of a profession, all en dunamei pisteos ean tis eurethe eis telos, but it is through the power of faith, if any one is found to the end. By which he intimates, that such is the strength and virtue of true faith, that such who have it are preserved and continued Christians to the end, and are then found to be so. His epistle to the Philadelphians is directed to them as a church firmly settled in the harmony of God, as being an everlasting and permanent joy; and their bishops, elders, and deacons, such whom Christ, according to his own will, esterixen en bebaiosune, had firmly established, through his Holy Spirit.
Irenaeus has several passages in his writings which favor this doctrine. Allegorizing the history of Lots wife, he thus expresses himself: The church which is the salt of the earth, is left in the confines of the of the earth, suffering the things which are human; and whilst whole members are often taken away from it, perseverat statua salis qued est firmamentum fidei, firmans et praemittens filios ad Patrem ipsorum, the pillar of salt continues, which is the firmament of faith, confirming and sending before the children to their Father. He speaks of the grace of love as an abiding one: Love, says he, perfects the perfect man; and he that loves God is perfect both in this world, and in that which is to come; nunquam enim desivimus diligentus Deum, for we never cease loving God, but the more we look upon him, the more we love him. He also represents the Spirit of God as never leaving the man he has taken up his residence in; for, he says, The breath of life is one thing, which makes the man animal, and another the quickening Spirit, which makes him spiritual. That which is made is different from him that makes it, wherefore the breath is temporal, to de Pneuma aennaon, the Spirit eternal. The breath indeed is vigorous for a little while, and remains some time, after which it goes away, leaving it breathless where it was before; but the Spirit encompasses man within and without, ate aei paramonimon oudepote kataleipei auton, as always abiding, and never leaves him. Yea, he represents it as blasphemy to say, that the members of Christ shall not be saved, but destroyed; for he makes this observation on 1 Corinthians 3:17, If any one defile the temple of God, etc.: Templum igitur Dei in quo Spiritus inhabitat Patris, et membra Christi non participare salutem, sed in perditionem redigi dicere, quomodo non maximae est blasphemiae? Therefore to say, that the temple of God, in which the Spirit of the Father dwells, and the members of Christ, shall not partake of salvation, but be brought down to destruction, is it not the highest blasphemy? Vossius refers to a chapter in Irenaeus, as militating against the doctrine of the saints final perseverance, in which are these expressions: All are of the same nature, and able to retain and do good, and able to lose it again, and not do it. And a little after, Disobedience to God, and loss of good, are indeed in the power of man. But it should be known and observed, that Irenaeus is disputing against those heretics who held, that some men were by nature good, and others evil; whereas, he says, they are all of the same nature, as at first created by God, capable of doing good and evil. Besides, he speaks only of the loss of natural and moral good in the natural man, and not of the loss of spiritual good, or of supernatural grace in the regenerate man. Moreover, Irenaeus has a passage in the very same chapter which seems to favor the saints perseverance; for he says, that the Lord bore all these things for us, that by all things being learned in all, we might be cautious for the future, et perseveremus in omni ejus dilectione, and persevere in all love to him.
I see why you are also called "The Resident Trouble Maker"DeaconDean said:Leastwise up until the war of Northern agression.P))
I see why you are also called "The Resident Trouble Maker"
and the other thing.... how about quoting from Paul.. or David.. or Jesus, rather than commentaries on these people's writings?
The Catholic church definitely didn't believe in once saved always saved.. the church at Corinth had paganism influences and had trouble with unity because it was so huge.. probably leading to one of the main drives in establishing Catholicism.
Early church fathers don't start with the Catholic heirachy.. they start with Jesus.. Paul.. Peter.. Matthew.. Mark.. Luke.. John.. Titus.. Timothy.. etc..
anyhoo.. I'm all heated up over this one.. because once saved always saved is central to the belief that Jesus is God.
Footnotes:
- Those whom God hath accepted in the Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by the Spirit, and given the precious faith of His elect unto can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, (whence He still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit to immortality)1 and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon: notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded, and obscured from them,2 yet it is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palm of His hands, and their names having been written in the book of Life from all eternity.3
- This perseverance of the saints, depends not upon their own free will but upon the immutability of the decree of election,4 flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with Him,5 the oath of God,6 the abiding of His Spirit, and the seed of God wthin them,7 and the nature of the covenant of grace;8 from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.
- And though they may, through the temptation of Satan, and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein;9 whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve His Holy Spirit,10 come to have their graces and comforts impaired,11 have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded,12 hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves,13 yet shall they renew their repentance, and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus, to the end.14
1. Jn 10:28-29; Php 1:6; 2Ti 2:19; 1Jn 2:19.
2. Ps 89:31-32; 1Co 11:32.
3. Mal 3:6.
4. Ro 8:30; 9:11,16.
5. Ro 5:9-10; Jn 14:19.
6. Heb 6:17-18.
7. 1Jn 3:9.
8. Jer 32:40.
9. Mt 26:70,72,74.
10. Isa 64:5,9; Eph 4:30.
11. Ps 51:10,12.
12. Ps 32:3-4.
13. 2Sa 12:14.
14. Lk 22:32,61-62.
anyhoo.. I'm all heated up over this one.. because once saved always saved is central to the belief that Jesus is God.
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