Do all of the seals, trumpets and vials affect the entire planet or are they more targeted in scope?

Waterwerx · Feb 9, 2017

Hades, who follows Death, is referring to an unseen place of the dead. Some versions are written with autois "to them" while others use auto "to him".

Given that each of the four are distinct from one another, I'm leaning more towards the ladder making more sense.

As a result of war, famine(weakened immune systems, nutrient deficiency), death(dead bodies), beasts of the earth(who most likely feed on the dead bodies), pestilence will run rampant during this time.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 24, 2018

Do all of the seals, trumpets and vials affect the entire planet or are they more targeted in scope?

My view is that it occurs in Israel, the land of Judea, and the City of Jerusalem and it's Temple...........

Matthew 23:
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
38 “See! Your house is left to you desolate;
Luke 13:
34 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!
35 “See! Your house is left to you desolate.................

Matthew 24:6
Ye shall be being about yet to be hearing battles<4171> and tidings<189> of battles.
seeing no be being alarmed/troubled<2360>,
for is binding to becoming, but not as yet is being the end
Mark 13:7
Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles<2171> and tidings of battles
seeing, no be being alarmed/troubled<2360>,
for it is binding to be becoming but not as yet the end.
Luke 21:9
Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles<2171> and tulmuts<181>
no be being frightened<4422>,
for it is binding these to be becoming but not immediately the end.

Matthew 24:16
“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Marl 13:14
“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:21
“Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Erik Nelson · Oct 24, 2018

Postvieww said:
There are many interpretations of the book of Revelation with regard to timing and scope. Post your beliefs and reasons for those beliefs.

I’ll start with a brief explanation of what I see in the seals.

1st Seal - No matter what your view of who or what the 1st seal represents the passage only says he that sat on the white horse went forth conquering and to conquer is does not say what or how much is conquered.

2nd Seal - This rider is said to take peace from the earth, so it could be argued to affect most of the planet at different times, but war has been a factor throughout history and this seal cannot be shown from the text to be a one time judgement during the tribulation period that brings war to every corner of earth at one time..

3rd Seal - Whatever your interpretation of the 3rd rider the passage does not say who or to what degree are those involved are affected.

4th- Seal - Power was given to the 4th rider only over ¼ of the earth.

5th Seal - Is only those who are slain for the word of God.

6th Seal - Affects the sun, moon and stars, every mountain and island, as well as the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man. The 6th seal can be said to affect the entire planet.

7th Seal - Only says there was silence in heaven, does not affect the entire planet.

Only seal 6 can be argued from the text to affect the entire planet at one time.

revelation speaks of the beast of the sea, symbolizing the pagan Roman empire of the Mediterranean Sea

that is regional

revelation also speaks of the land, up onto which the beast comes ashore

if that was also regional, then the land could just mean 1st century Judea

and everything would make complete sense

iamlamad · Oct 25, 2018

Postvieww said:
There are many interpretations of the book of Revelation with regard to timing and scope. Post your beliefs and reasons for those beliefs.

I’ll start with a brief explanation of what I see in the seals.

1st Seal - No matter what your view of who or what the 1st seal represents the passage only says he that sat on the white horse went forth conquering and to conquer is does not say what or how much is conquered.

2nd Seal - This rider is said to take peace from the earth, so it could be argued to affect most of the planet at different times, but war has been a factor throughout history and this seal cannot be shown from the text to be a one time judgement during the tribulation period that brings war to every corner of earth at one time..

3rd Seal - Whatever your interpretation of the 3rd rider the passage does not say who or to what degree are those involved are affected.

4th- Seal - Power was given to the 4th rider only over ¼ of the earth.

5th Seal - Is only those who are slain for the word of God.

6th Seal - Affects the sun, moon and stars, every mountain and island, as well as the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man. The 6th seal can be said to affect the entire planet.

7th Seal - Only says there was silence in heaven, does not affect the entire planet.

Only seal 6 can be argued from the text to affect the entire planet at one time.

You did well here, except for one thing: the 1/4 of the earth is for seals 2, 3 AND 4.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. (Famine)

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. (Famine)

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death,

These three riders ride together. They are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the church. All three were limited to 1/4 of the earth. I take that to be Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

iamlamad · Oct 25, 2018

Postvieww said:
1st Vial - Affects only those with the mark of the beast.

2nd Vial - Affects only the sea and every living soul in the sea.

3rd Vial - Affects the rivers and fountains of waters.

4th Vial - The angel had the power to scorch men with fire and great heat and those scorched blasphemed the name of God. No Godly people are affected.

5th Vial - Affects only the seat of the beast and his kingdom.

6th Vial - Affects the river Euphrates

7th Vial – A great earthquake, the Great City is divided, cities of the nations fall, every mountain and isaland are not found, great hail falls and men blaspheme God. This vial affect the entire planet.

Only the 7th Vial can be argued from the text to affect the entire planet.

Only the 6th seal the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial can conclusively be said to affect the entire planet.

It is my belief that these three , the 6th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th vial, overlap and happen simultaneously at the return of Christ. Even if one believes the seals, trumpets and vials run in sequence most of the events listed are not global in scope.

I don't know how you are anyone else can say such a thing! Did you forget or overlook the fact that the seals are there ONLY to seal the book and keep anyone from opening it except who is written on it? there is NO WAY "the book" can be opened and read until all seven seals are opened first. And if you read at the 7th seal, the first thing seen is the 7 angels ready to receive the 7 trumpets. I submit that this is something written INSIDE THE BOOK.

I think "THE BOOK" is the title deed to earth. It is also the means or path by which Satan is finally cast down and his rule as prince of this world ENDED.

But before that can ever happen, SOMEONE had to be found worthy to open the seals.

As I see it, everything we read after the 7th seal is what is INSIDE the book.

This makes what you said absolutely impossible. NOTHING after the 7th seal can be at the same time as ANY of the seals.

iamlamad · Oct 25, 2018

Postvieww said:
Thanks for your views.

Is it not possible that the “them” is “death, and hell”? The passage says the name of the rider of the pale horse was death and “hell” followed him, I believe that would qualify for “them”.

To me it makes more sense that the four horses are all distinct as listed and most likely opened at different times.

Since the sword brings death and famine brings death, why try to make 2 + 3 = 4?

The pale horse is more specific with what causes the death and adds “with the beasts of the earth”.

If the pale horse is just a recap of the red and black horse why the need for a forth pale horse.

It appears the red horse rider’s sword is symbolic, because the passage clearly says he takes peace from the earth, and the people kill each other.

I see how you arrive at your conclusion, I just don’t believe it gives a complete explanation for what happens.

Did I detect just a little bit of agreement on the main point, that the AC and GT are MOSTLY Middle East centered?

You answered quickly. After "the" the first thing mentioned is the SWORD. I think that word in that place ties the Red horse and rider to "them." I think hunger ties the black horse to them - else why did God include the word "sword" and the word "hunger." I think in context this sentence ties seals 2, 3, and 4 together.

I think this makes sense if these three are to represent Satan's attempts to stop the gospel and hold it within this 1/4th of the earth.

The point is, wars stop the advance of the gospel. Famines stop the advance of the gospel. And pestilences stop the advance of the gospel. These three work together at times and separately at times.

I really don't know if the seas turning to blood (vials) are all the oceans of the world or not.
Certainly some of the judgments where the seat of the Beast is mentioned will be localized to the Middle East.

Erik Nelson · Oct 25, 2018

if the beast of "the sea" does not refer to all of the oceans on our planet, but only the Mediterranean Sea...

then "the land" (Hebrew eretz) would be limited in scope

even today Jews call their country eretz Israel and it only means Israel and Palestine

similarly, for 2000 years the Orthodox church has used the term ECUMENICAL ("whole inhabited earth") merely to mean the Greco Roman world, not actually the whole entire surface of the planet

iamlamad · Oct 27, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
if the beast of "the sea" does not refer to all of the oceans on our planet, but only the Mediterranean Sea...

then "the land" (Hebrew eretz) would be limited in scope

even today Jews call their country eretz Israel and it only means Israel and Palestine

similarly, for 2000 years the Orthodox church has used the term ECUMENICAL ("whole inhabited earth") merely to mean the Greco Roman world, not actually the whole entire surface of the planet

We really don't know for sure when John tells us that the whole world wandered after the Beast - if that would included all nations we know of - and islands.

However, since God includes "the nations" in the end times, I am convinced the scope of the Beast's kingdom is going to be pretty much world wide. It is only a guess.

Erik Nelson · Oct 27, 2018

iamlamad said:
We really don't know for sure when John tells us that the whole world wandered after the Beast - if that would included all nations we know of - and islands.

However, since God includes "the nations" in the end times, I am convinced the scope of the Beast's kingdom is going to be pretty much world wide. It is only a guess.

yes, "Gog and Magog" may well symbolise a global movement

Choose Wisely · Oct 27, 2018

keras said:
There is no doubt that the first five Seals are opened and have been since Jesus ascended to heaven.
.

LOL, what are you talking about, there is plenty of doubt.
None of the seals have been opened.
Rev 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

This verse shows that the seals were not opened when John wrote Revelation.

Douggg · Oct 27, 2018

Postvieww said:
There are many interpretations of the book of Revelation with regard to timing and scope. Post your beliefs and reasons for those beliefs.

I’ll start with a brief explanation of what I see in the seals.

1st Seal - No matter what your view of who or what the 1st seal represents the passage only says he that sat on the white horse went forth conquering and to conquer is does not say what or how much is conquered.

2nd Seal - This rider is said to take peace from the earth, so it could be argued to affect most of the planet at different times, but war has been a factor throughout history and this seal cannot be shown from the text to be a one time judgement during the tribulation period that brings war to every corner of earth at one time..

3rd Seal - Whatever your interpretation of the 3rd rider the passage does not say who or to what degree are those involved are affected.

4th- Seal - Power was given to the 4th rider only over ¼ of the earth.

5th Seal - Is only those who are slain for the word of God.

6th Seal - Affects the sun, moon and stars, every mountain and island, as well as the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man. The 6th seal can be said to affect the entire planet.

7th Seal - Only says there was silence in heaven, does not affect the entire planet.

Only seal 6 can be argued from the text to affect the entire planet at one time.

I think this is globally -

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

And given that in Revelation 7 there are them in heaven as a result of the great tribulation from every nation, kindred, tongues, peoples - that indicates globally.

When it comes to the individual judgements of the trumpets and vials of wrath - that is going vary depending on the particular judgement. But for the most part, the judgments will be globally.

keras · Oct 28, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
LOL, what are you talking about, there is plenty of doubt.
None of the seals have been opened.
Rev 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

This verse shows that the seals were not opened when John wrote Revelation.

The first Five Seals were opened when John wrote Revelation. John saw the future and also what occurred when Jesus Ascended to heaven. Revelation 5:1-7
The almost continuous wars, incl the Roman conquest of Judah, the terrible famines, the decimating plagues and the Fifth Seal of all the souls of the martyrs, began with Stephen.

There is NO doubt; those Seals are open and the next prophesied event will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire from the sun. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, Psalms 50:1-3

Choose Wisely · Oct 28, 2018

keras said:
The first Five Seals were opened when John wrote Revelation. John saw the future and also what occurred when Jesus Ascended to heaven. Revelation 5:1-7

Wait a minute.......you just said..............There is no doubt that the first five Seals are opened and have been since Jesus ascended to heaven.

Now that I have proven you wrong using scripture........you want to make something else up.

However, even with you making something else up..........it still disagrees with scripture.

Revelation 1, doesn't say let me show you some things that have happened and some other things that are going to happen.

Instead of making up a bunch of garbage, why don't you change your beliefs to agree with scripture. Anyone that thinks that the seals have been opened..........is wrong. Period.

Choose Wisely · Oct 28, 2018

keras said:
The almost continuous wars, incl the Roman conquest of Judah, the terrible famines, the decimating plagues and the Fifth Seal of all the souls of the martyrs, began with Stephen.

In case you don't know, there have been wars, famines and plagues long before Jesus showed up. I can assure you, as soon as the rider on the white horse........who caries a bow........goes forth conquering and to conquer, you will see wars, famine and pestilence.

Choose Wisely · Oct 28, 2018

keras said:
There is NO doubt; those Seals are open and the next prophesied event will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire from the sun. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, Psalms 50:1-3

Shouldn't you say, according to scripture, there is no doubt that the seals are NOT open.

Further we can go to Matt 24. The disciples ask:

Matt 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Does Jesus answer the question about when these things shall be and end times or does he say something like:

Well instead of answering your question, let me tell you about the next 2000 years.

No........he answers their questions. And those answers line up with the 6 seals. Those seals will be opened after the pretribulation rapture. Here's another hint......when you quit making things up and go by what scripture says, you ought to be able to see the pretribulation rapture.

keras · Oct 29, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
Here's another hint......when you quit making things up and go by what scripture says, you ought to be able to see the pretribulation rapture.

Here is the truth; When you quit making things up, you should see that a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is never mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

That the first Five Seals are open now, is proved by the souls of the martyrs, all those killed for their faith since Stephen, are kept under the heavenly Altar. The ones killed during the Great Trib, will complete their number. Revelation 6:11

That there will be more wars, is certain, but I do not see any more famines, plagues or economic disasters. They have happened aplenty, all thru the ages. But now, we look forward to the time when God will bless His faithful people, living in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16

Do all of the seals, trumpets and vials affect the entire planet or are they more targeted in scope?

Is the entire great tribulation global in scope or more Middle East focused?

1. Is universal in scope

2. Mostly Middle East centered

3. Has already happened

4. No literal time period of great tribulation

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Lamad

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Forgiven

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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