DMT and Christianity?

[KTskater]

For those of you who no longer spend all of your time on a college campus, and thus may not have heard about DMT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine

I recently watched a documentary on the substance called "The Spirit Molecule." You can find this documentary on Netflix. My brother, who isn't a Christian, has read many books on the subject and the two of us have had some interesting conversations on the topic. I must say, it raises some serious questions about the spiritual function of the human brain. If all of these spiritual experiences can be explained via the production of DMT in the body, where does that leave an omniscient, omnipotent, and personal God?

I'd love to hear from some biochemists or pharmacologists, if we have any floating around. Others are, of course, welcome to give their opinions on the meaning, purpose or place of psychedelics in truth and faith.

 

[Theofane]

I've read about DMT experiences and watched YouTube videos on the subject. Although I'm fascinated by DMT, it seems like it could be dangerous. Taking a drug (even something that occurs natrurally in the human body) in order to have spiritual experiences seems wrong somehow.

 

[Naraoia]

For those of you who no longer spend all of your time on a college campus, and thus may not have heard about DMT: Dimethyltryptamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I recently watched a documentary on the substance called "The Spirit Molecule." You can find this documentary on Netflix. My brother, who isn't a Christian, has read many books on the subject and the two of us have had some interesting conversations on the topic. I must say, it raises some serious questions about the spiritual function of the human brain. If all of these spiritual experiences can be explained via the production of DMT in the body, where does that leave an omniscient, omnipotent, and personal God?

If you really want to believe in said God, I'm sure you could accept the idea that substances like DMT mediate the God-mind interaction

 

[KTskater]

I've read about DMT experiences and watched YouTube videos on the subject. Although I'm fascinated by DMT, it seems like it could be dangerous. Taking a drug (even something that occurs natrurally in the human body) in order to have spiritual experiences seems wrong somehow.

Perhaps I worded my original post poorly. I'm more interested in your views on the mere existence on this molecule and what it means about the interaction between humans and a personal God. This is also what allows you to dream, and what causes visions in near death experiences. So, in many cases, people who claim to have seen heaven or hell on a hospital bed, are simply dreaming because high levels of DMT are being released.
This is different from other hallucinogens like psilocybin, LSD or mescaline, because it's simply a variant of tryptophan (which is one of your 20 amino acids), brought about by enzymes. It's a natural function of the human body to produce it, therefore, it has some biological significance....however, no one seems to know what that is yet.

If you really want to believe in said God, I'm sure you could accept the idea that substances like DMT mediate the God-mind interaction

I have some of my own view points on the molecule. Just like I have my own view points on evolution, all of which are up to alteration depending new evidence (both spiritual, if you'll allow me to use the term "evidence", and empirical). However, I'm interested in learning about the view points of some people who have a better base in chemistry than I do.

 

[[serious]]

Meh, drugs are drugs. I don't have any particular enmity towards them, but I prefer my own spirituality to come more organically.

 

[Naraoia]

I have some of my own view points on the molecule. Just like I have my own view points on evolution, all of which are up to alteration depending new evidence (both spiritual, if you'll allow me to use the term "evidence", and empirical). However, I'm interested in learning about the view points of some people who have a better base in chemistry than I do.

In that case - God doesn't seem to exist to begin with, and chemicals are just chemicals (I didn't think you would find that view terribly helpful.)

That is a lie.

I hope you are not suggesting that I wrote the above with the intention to deceive.

lie 2 (l

)n.1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

(source)
​

Drugs do not bring you any closer to God.

I completely agree.

 

[sandwiches]

That is a lie. Drugs do not bring you any closer to God.

I believe you misunderstood him. I think what he meant was that,as a theist, you could believe that the chemical DMT, which is produced naturally in the human body, is what lets your "physical body" interact with the "spiritual" aspect of your being. So, when God speaks to you, your body reacts by creating or secreting DMT, for instance.

 

[Theofane]

Meh, drugs are drugs. I don't have any particular enmity towards them, but I prefer my own spirituality to come more organically.

Me too!

 

[Naraoia]

I believe you misunderstood him. I think what he meant was that,as a theist, you could believe that the chemical DMT, which is produced naturally in the human body, is what lets your "physical body" interact with the "spiritual" aspect of your being. So, when God speaks to you, your body reacts by creating or secreting DMT, for instance.

I'm still a girl, but yeah, that's exactly what I meant.

 

[Illuminaughty]

If a person smokes DMT they will be blasted off to another world. Very disconcerting and powerful. If a person decides to smoke it they should have a trip sitter to watch out for them. Sometimes people take it too lightly and they regret things during and afterwards.

 

[KTskater]

Meh, drugs are drugs. I don't have any particular enmity towards them, but I prefer my own spirituality to come more organically.

The thing is, this IS your spirituality coming to you organically. DMT, like I've already mentioned, doesn't need to be taken. It's already in your body, just in lower amounts. If for some reason your body decides to synthesize a larger amount than normal, then it's believed to cause visions and religious experiences.
Obviously, atheists don't need to mess with this at all. It's just chemicals causing crazy things in the body (albeit, the evolutionary advantage of this molecule is still quite uncertain). However, I was interested in what theists have to say about it, since it's not a "drug" (in the typical sense), but rather a naturally occurring process in your body.

 

[lisah]

Perhaps I worded my original post poorly. I'm more interested in your views on the mere existence on this molecule and what it means about the interaction between humans and a personal God. This is also what allows you to dream, and what causes visions in near death experiences. So, in many cases, people who claim to have seen heaven or hell on a hospital bed, are simply dreaming because high levels of DMT are being released.

I think it might explain meditation-induced experiences. I watched the documentary, and I found that I have experienced some things similar to some of what was described by the test subjects through meditation. That it is a chemical naturally occurring in the body that can be triggered through meditation makes sense to me. It also makes sense that it contributes to experiencing spiritual revelations.

Non-religious people might think it creates these experiences; while more religious people might think it is naturally there to assist in experiencing a deeper connection to God and spirit.

In the watching the video, I found it interesting that there was an emphasis on "preparation" of an individual taking the drug. Lack of preparation (which I interpret as not having the preferable mindset as a positive test subject) can create a "bad trip"; if I recall this correctly. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[cn1ks]

For those of you who no longer spend all of your time on a college campus, and thus may not have heard about DMT: N,N-Dimethyltryptamine - Wikipedia

I recently watched a documentary on the substance called "The Spirit Molecule." You can find this documentary on Netflix. My brother, who isn't a Christian, has read many books on the subject and the two of us have had some interesting conversations on the topic. I must say, it raises some serious questions about the spiritual function of the human brain. If all of these spiritual experiences can be explained via the production of DMT in the body, where does that leave an omniscient, omnipotent, and personal God?

I'd love to hear from some biochemists or pharmacologists, if we have any floating around. Others are, of course, welcome to give their opinions on the meaning, purpose or place of psychedelics in truth and faith.

Hey. As someone who has been raised a Christian (not a particular great one), I, like most people in this forum, will have it engrained in them that the use of drugs is bad and even "unchristian".
That being said, it would be quicker to name the drugs I haven't tried, rather than those I have.

I discovered psychedelics some years ago, now, yet nothing other than DMT has lifted the veil on my reality so vividly or profoundly. Everything you hear about it is true: spirits are real, and you will meet some. I expect everyone in this forum will agree, in one way or another, that spirits are real (angels or demons).

The internal conflict I face between my inherited/programmed belief and my learned experience, is something that plays on my mind a lot. I whole-heartedly believe that this life is not the end, and also that spirits come in many forms with differing teachings, morals and intentions for the souls that go looking for them. I feel that it is dangerous for the mind/soul to take DMT without guidance, solid intentions and a genuine curiosity - it is NOT a recreational drug!

I do not entirely accept the mainstream school of thought of Man's history. This includes how much has been omitted from, and most likely add to, the modern Bible to further the power of greedy men.
I think that there is great ancient knowledge held back from humanity, in order to maintain the status quo. That being said, who the heck knows, right?

I've taken DMT several times to try and get closer to God. In a significant way I still feel torn that I am in some way rejecting Christ, but I am rationalising this against my distrust in men, not God or the Son of God.

DMT will show you all things, not just what you hope to; I have had wildly differing experiences.
I am yet to see/meet anything that resembles a Christ figure, but I have heard of people who have.
I have, however, met entities that sound remarkably alike to those written about in the book of Revelation. Make of that what you will but, to reiterate my earlier point, psychedelics were "demonised" by modern religions, yet were likely common place 2000+ years ago.

I'm still on my spiritual journey, and I guess I will be until the day I die. I wish you all the best in yours. Peace.

 

[Astrid]

I've read about DMT experiences and watched YouTube videos on the subject. Although I'm fascinated by DMT, it seems like it could be dangerous. Taking a drug (even something that occurs natrurally in the human body) in order to have spiritual experiences seems wrong somehow.

Why?
In some native American traditions ns peyote plays a central role.
Is one to say none is valid?

For that matter, actions such as prolonged fasting, changing etc
is vision quest stuff that works by altering brain chemistry.

Of course some unfortunates have inately deranged
brain wiring and chemistry.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't know about DMT, but I know a college professor who suggested LSD as a way out of "the establishment."

 

[Chris35]

God designed and created the body and evertything in it including the pineal gland. God understands how the body and mind works fully.

So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep.

From a chemical point of view, i could also say, God caused a chemical imbalance in man physicaly, which caused man to fall into a deep sleep, and restored the chemical imbalance when he was done.

It is done so precisely, and perfectly that there is no risk of harm, and no side effects.

In the same way, God knows our bodies, and can cause our body to release the perfect amount of chemicals including dmt, and lead our thoughts to produce a vision in exactly what he wants us to see.

 

[AV1611VET]

In the same way, God knows our bodies, and can cause our body to release the perfect amount of chemicals including dmt, and lead our thoughts to produce a vision in exactly what he wants us to see.

Then why do atheists exist?

 

[Chris35]

Then why do atheists exist?

Justice

 

[AV1611VET]

Justice

Ouch!