Divorced preacher?

[E_Powers]

The church demanded he hand in his resignation because he had remarried. The church basically ousted a great preacher. I felt it was a poor decision. I can honestly say when he left, he was the last good preacher that church had. The next one was embezzeling money from the tithes collected. The one after him was a habitual womanizer and a racist. The remarried pastor has gone on to another church to preach and the church has tripled in size and is so spirit-filled.

my dad met this one pastor (denomination unimportant) who did preach being spirit filled and his church ousted him for it after years of service with them. and he went on to alot better things in the lord.

 

[bkg]

But scripture doesn't specifically apply this requirement to pastors and ministers. You are extending it to pastors and ministers--that isn't stated in scripture.

There may be some interpretive differences, but I would have to offer a challenge. If God were to apply the "of one wife" designation only to elders, and not leaders, what good would that designation offer? Should not those who lead the congregation be Men of God?

Pastors in my opinion have a very difficult job. They not only must lead their families, but their church family as well. They have a very high "standard" to maintain, in my opinion, and I believe that is wise. That doesn't discount errors or forgiveness by any stretch at all. But if Pastors and leaders are not held to a very high Biblical standard, how can they "lead" a congregation in the correct direction?

The comments made about Paul are correct - but he was all of those things BEFORE he became a Christian. Very important deliniation.

And Jimmy Evans is wrong about divorce. As I said, with no-fault divorce a spouse can divorce you over your objection for any reason or no reason.

I have to offer one correction to this statement above - Jimmy Evans was talking about Marriage. And I believe, with 100% of what is in me, that he is correct. If we, as Christians, would do as Scripture says and put aside pride, selfishness, unforgiveness, etc and turn our marriage over to God and live our marriage according to His word and commands, we woud have a 100% chance... You are correct, a person can divorce over a hang nail and the spouse can do nothing about it - but would the hang nail ever be something to divorce over in a Godly marriage? No, of course not. Pastor Evans' point is that the things that lead to divorce are NOT issues in the marriage relationship as designed by God. I agree.

A pastor in a very large church recently turned his Pastoral position over to the elders for review. There had been an incident in his family - an error, sin, whatever - with one of his children. Because of his position, and his care for the Church, and knowing that it would have appeared to be sinful, he asked the elders to consider replacing him so that the Church could continue to flourish without struggle that sin brings...

That is the kind of Pastor that I admire - the kind that puts his family and his Church before his "career" or own personal beliefs... Amazing man.

bkg

 

[Flipper]

Ok, I don't like to thow in denomination doctrine because this isn't a denominational forum, but what I am about to say is more denomination doctrine than you are probably used to (that I believe is Bible based - but some people will have a different interpretation of the Bible and will disagree).

I believe that when we become a Christian, we all become saints and ministers of the Word.

A pastor is in a spiritual leadership position - I believe that he should be held to a higher standard. As far as whether he can be divorced and/or remarried and still be pastor, I am torn. I want to say a blanket no because he should be held to a higher standard, but I have seen exceptions made and it be for the best. If there was a fair way to do a case by case analysis of each situation, then maybe - but I can't see that being flawless because we aren't flawless. So, I will have to go with a blanket no, with case by case exceptions.

However, when it comes to lay ministry leadership positions - I don't see why not, and that includes elders, because I believe they are also lay ministers in a sense. As Christians, we are all ministers of the Word. We are also all sinners. If we sin, does that make us have to give up our God given duty of ministry? Absolutely not. If that were true, we would have no right to give help or insight on this board, because what we are doing even here is a form of ministry.

 

[WolfGate]

MT 5:

32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

1CO 7:12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1CO 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

1Ti14

So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander.

Doesn't matter to me what I think should be the case. Matters to me what God says.

Based on the scriptures above and the verses others have quoted, I believe we must consider the reasons for the divorce. Looking at the body or work quoted above, trying to cover all the bases, I come to the following conclusion:

To be the "husband of only one wife" the divorce should be because of marital unfaithfulness or because an unbelieving spouse left you.

The points I would make on requirements for leadership positions or pastor, elder, deacon have been well made by others - and I believe the Bible there as well.

I do understand this eliminates people who could have been excellent in those roles. But God does what he chooses, not what men choose.

 

[Archivist]

There may be some interpretive differences, but I would have to offer a challenge. If God were to apply the "of one wife" designation only to elders, and not leaders, what good would that designation offer? Should not those who lead the congregation be Men of God?

Pastors in my opinion have a very difficult job. They not only must lead their families, but their church family as well. They have a very high "standard" to maintain, in my opinion, and I believe that is wise. That doesn't discount errors or forgiveness by any stretch at all. But if Pastors and leaders are not held to a very high Biblical standard, how can they "lead" a congregation in the correct direction?

The comments made about Paul are correct - but he was all of those things BEFORE he became a Christian. Very important deliniation.

You want to say that the term "elders" applies to pastors and ministers, but that the term "husband of one wife" doesn't apply to widows or widowers.

You can't have it both ways and still be consistant.

If you want to hold this position that's fine, although I personally think that it is sad because you will eliminate many highly qualified individuals such as the one described by Fluffy Rainbow in an earlier post. However please do not say that your view is God's position (your exact words were "'WE' don't have a blanket rules about exclusion from leadership positions... GOD DOES") and that my interpretation somehow violates Scripture. You have no right to take your view and present it as if you are speaking for God--you are interpreting Scripture just as I am interpretating Scripture.

I have to offer one correction to this statement above - Jimmy Evans was talking about Marriage. And I believe, with 100% of what is in me, that he is correct. If we, as Christians, would do as Scripture says and put aside pride, selfishness, unforgiveness, etc and turn our marriage over to God and live our marriage according to His word and commands, we woud have a 100% chance... You are correct, a person can divorce over a hang nail and the spouse can do nothing about it - but would the hang nail ever be something to divorce over in a Godly marriage? No, of course not. Pastor Evans' point is that the things that lead to divorce are NOT issues in the marriage relationship as designed by God. I agree.

A pastor in a very large church recently turned his Pastoral position over to the elders for review. There had been an incident in his family - an error, sin, whatever - with one of his children. Because of his position, and his care for the Church, and knowing that it would have appeared to be sinful, he asked the elders to consider replacing him so that the Church could continue to flourish without struggle that sin brings...

That is the kind of Pastor that I admire - the kind that puts his family and his Church before his "career" or own personal beliefs... Amazing man.

bkg

[/QUOTE]

Again, did you read the earlier posting by Fluffy Rainbow? Divorce happens, sometimes in spite of everything that one spouse does to try to prevent it from happening.

 

[Flipper]

Doesn't matter to me what I think should be the case. Matters to me what God says.

Based on the scriptures above and the verses others have quoted, I believe we must consider the reasons for the divorce. Looking at the body or work quoted above, trying to cover all the bases, I come to the following conclusion:

To be the "husband of only one wife" the divorce should be because of marital unfaithfulness or because an unbelieving spouse left you.

The points I would make on requirements for leadership positions or pastor, elder, deacon have been well made by others - and I believe the Bible there as well.

I do understand this eliminates people who could have been excellent in those roles. But God does what he chooses, not what men choose.
[/size]

Have you ever told a lie? Stole a pen from the office? Those are sins too.

 

[WolfGate]

Have you ever told a lie? Stole a pen from the office? Those are sins too.

Yes, they are. How is that related to the Biblical passages on requirements for church leadership?

I think you are very close to putting forth a straw man argument.

P.S. (and off topic) I see your icon as worried. If there is a prayer need, please let us know.

 

[bkg]

You want to say that the term "elders" applies to pastors and ministers, but that the term "husband of one wife" doesn't apply to widows or widowers.

You can't have it both ways and still be consistant.

It's not my Scripture - I didn't write it. It's also not about consistency, it's about what God wants for leadership in the church. Divorce/remarriage is not the same as widowed/remarriage, nor does the Bible every call them out in the same light (to the best of my knowledge). In fact Paul calls out some differences specifically in 1 Corinthians. They are apples and oranges - not something that can compared. Remarriage is allowed after a spouse dies - this is actually the only time that remarriage is specifically talked about to th ebest of my knowledge.

However please do not say that your view is God's position (your exact words were "'WE' don't have a blanket rules about exclusion from leadership positions... GOD DOES") and that my interpretation somehow violates Scripture. You have no right to take your view and present it as if you are speaking for God--you are interpreting Scripture just as I am interpretating Scripture.

I've only stated what I believe Scripture says about divorce/remarriage and leadership positions in the church. Scripture is clear. I'm sorry you feel my interpretation is incorrect, or that I some how "speak for God" - a comment I frankly don't understand - but it seems that many people and churches take this Scripture very seriously... And rightfully so, I believe.

Again, did you read the earlier posting by Fluffy Rainbow? Divorce happens, sometimes in spite of everything that one spouse does to try to prevent it from happening.

I know divorce happens. My divorce happened 12/23/03. I tried everything I could to save my marriage. But I would be lieing if I said that divorce was not preventable. It is preventable when a couple follows God's laws for marriage. I didn't, we didn't, now we are divorced.

If divorce wasn't 100% preventable in a God-designed marriage... then why would God give us marriage? Why would He give us rules for the roles in marriage? Because through those Scriptures - through His design - divorce isn't an issue; marriage is the true glorifying picture of the relationship that God has with the church. It's when we fall away from His design for marriage that divorce becomes a possibility.

I think many of the posters have already expressed their belief that divorced individuals can be very effective in the body. But I believe that Scripture is clear about the roles divorced/remarried individuals cannot play.

Blessings,
bkg

 

[Flipper]

[/font]

Yes, they are. How is that related to the Biblical passages on requirements for church leadership?

I think you are very close to putting forth a straw man argument.

P.S. (and off topic) I see your icon as worried. If there is a prayer need, please let us know.

I was being a smart aleck - my serious post is a couple up from that and it doesn't completely disagree with you.

I don't have anything in prayer forums (I probably should), I have something in the Prayer Sticky in the Lutheran forum, but to save you a trip - in a nutshell - my mom is very sick. Thank you for your concern, but I don't want to hijack this thread. This is a very interesting topic.

 

[Yitzchak]

I think that the crucial issue here is that a person who is to be a leader has extra responsibility and therefore there are standards that don't apply to every Christian.

For example, the scripture clearly says not to put a novice in leadership because they are likely to be tempted after it goes to their head.

A church leader needs to be stable and mature. I think it is just common sense that unrepented of current sin is an obstacle to ministry. Of course the first choice is repentance. The reason many churches forbid a divorced minister is true repentance , they believe , would mean being reconciled to his wife. The other reason is they fear he will set a bad example that others who are weaker in the faith will be tempted to follow.

I agree with the basic principles involved in that thinking but disagree on the details. I believe that God can use a person with a past and even a person with present sin. However, in order for God to fully use them in leadership, there must be repentance and ammends made. For example, a pastor who is bitter at his ex-wife and has not healed from his divorce is in a position to do much harm even unintentionally. There needs to be some counseling, repentance of his wrong and where possible ammends or restitution made. Saying it is in the past is not enough. he needs to show maturity and good faith in the present tense.

So bootomline, yes, God can use divorced pastors/leaders. But they must deal with their past and whatever sins they were involved in first. Then it will truelly be in the past and not hinder his ministry.

 

[Gerry_NY]

1Tim3 is where the answer lies, regardless of everything else that has been said here. 1Timothy 3 clearly states that a pastor, as well as a deacon, must be a husband of 1 wife. And "blameless." That, to me, means that he has not been divorced for the wrong reasons nor has he commited any kind of sexual sin or committed a crime that noone knows of.

 

[heartnsoul]

Sure.

"There is no one righteous,not even one." Romans 3:10. We are all sinners; pastors are no different than anyone else in this regard.

A woman who has divorced and remarried can also serve as pastor of a church.

I think that the crucial issue here is that a person who is to be a leader has extra responsibility and therefore there are standards that don't apply to every Christian.

For example, the scripture clearly says not to put a novice in leadership because they are likely to be tempted after it goes to their head.

A church leader needs to be stable and mature. I think it is just common sense that unrepented of current sin is an obstacle to ministry. Of course the first choice is repentance. The reason many churches forbid a divorced minister is true repentance , they believe , would mean being reconciled to his wife. The other reason is they fear he will set a bad example that others who are weaker in the faith will be tempted to follow.

I agree with the basic principles involved in that thinking but disagree on the details. I believe that God can use a person with a past and even a person with present sin. However, in order for God to fully use them in leadership, there must be repentance and ammends made. For example, a pastor who is bitter at his ex-wife and has not healed from his divorce is in a position to do much harm even unintentionally. There needs to be some counseling, repentance of his wrong and where possible ammends or restitution made. Saying it is in the past is not enough. he needs to show maturity and good faith in the present tense.

So bootomline, yes, God can use divorced pastors/leaders. But they must deal with their past and whatever sins they were involved in first. Then it will truelly be in the past and not hinder his ministry.

I agree with both of the above posts. All of us fall short and are sinful. The key is true repentance. God knows our hearts. I know of many wonderful Christians who minister to people daily without having a "pastor" title. Maybe we're placing too much emphasis on worldly titles. To me, it doesn't really matter what "title" I have. As long as I am a child of God, that's all that matters to me in this world. I try to do my best to shine the light of God unto others and also receive light from others as well. God's children are *all* fishers of men in this world...so yes--as long as there is true repentance, God can use divorced pastors and leaders for His glory.

 

[EmSchmem]

Our pastors we're once pot smokin buddies. They now lead the biggest church of our age group in the entire nation (though not the biggest church overall). Our church was one of only 60 mentioned in the book Good to Great Churches, which explains how good churches only got better. Our church was also listed in All-Star Missions Churches, a book about the best missions programs in the country. I don't at all agree with their past drug abuse but there are no 2 better people to shepard our flock.
The set up of our church calls for many Home Churches (not really like cell groups). The leader of our home church is divorced. Him and his current wife are the two best people in the whole world to shepard our flock and we will miss them dearly when they move to Russia for missions work. The leader of my former home church also divorced. The team he lead with also the best people to do so.
My point, while forgiveness of sins does not exempt us from consequences, neither does it discount us moving on with our lives. God will use who He knows is bet for the job, even if they have done non-upstanding citizen things.
We have a woman in our home group who is doing everything possible to save her marriage. Her husband wants no part of it. It's not impossible to save her marriage but she is only in control of what SHE does not of what HE does. If this marriage does end, I fully believe that she held to biblical guidelines (for lack of a better word) and should be free to move into any leadership position possible.

 

[Melbelle]

1Tim3 is where the answer lies, regardless of everything else that has been said here. 1Timothy 3 clearly states that a pastor, as well as a deacon, must be a husband of 1 wife. And "blameless." That, to me, means that he has not been divorced for the wrong reasons nor has he commited any kind of sexual sin or committed a crime that noone knows of.

Well Said , I know in my church this guy who is an awesome man in the lord, he has been divorced and they will not allow him to be a decon in our church. He switched to a church that doesn't mind that, but like Gerry said "1Timothy 3" Say's it all. This is my OP.

 

[AndOne]

Our pastors we're once pot smokin buddies. They now lead the biggest church of our age group in the entire nation (though not the biggest church overall). Our church was one of only 60 mentioned in the book Good to Great Churches, which explains how good churches only got better. Our church was also listed in All-Star Missions Churches, a book about the best missions programs in the country. I don't at all agree with their past drug abuse but there are no 2 better people to shepard our flock.
The set up of our church calls for many Home Churches (not really like cell groups). The leader of our home church is divorced. Him and his current wife are the two best people in the whole world to shepard our flock and we will miss them dearly when they move to Russia for missions work. The leader of my former home church also divorced. The team he lead with also the best people to do so.
My point, while forgiveness of sins does not exempt us from consequences, neither does it discount us moving on with our lives. God will use who He knows is bet for the job, even if they have done non-upstanding citizen things.
We have a woman in our home group who is doing everything possible to save her marriage. Her husband wants no part of it. It's not impossible to save her marriage but she is only in control of what SHE does not of what HE does. If this marriage does end, I fully believe that she held to biblical guidelines (for lack of a better word) and should be free to move into any leadership position possible.

I'd be interested to know if the pastors who smoked pot did so before or after coming to faith in Jesus. Same goes for the homegroup leaders who were divorced - did it occur before or after their salvation?

As was pointed out earlier - Paul was a persecuter of Christians before his conversion - but he went on to be one of the greatest apostles. I believe that the qualification of church leadership applies to one's actions after he has come to faith in Christ - not before - since before salvation he was dead and upon salvation he was made into a new creation.

 

[EmSchmem]

They were pot smokin buddies BEFORE becoming seriously involved with ther Christian walks. I believe one was saved though not walking and the other wasn't saved at all. The homegroup leader got dicvorced after he was saved, but he too hadn't really committed his life to Christ.

 

[AndOne]

Thanks for the clarification -

I don't think I need to rehash my position on this, though.

God bless...