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Divorced and remarried preachers?

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lismore

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Sometimes people make mistakes and marry the wrong person. If you have married a total weasel why would God want you to muck up your whole future due to a mistake?

Psalm 130
3 If you, O LORD, kept a record of sins,
O Lord, who could stand?
4 But with you there is forgiveness;
therefore you are feared.
5 I wait for the LORD, my soul waits,
and in his word I put my hope.

If God doent keep a record of sins how come some people in the church can keep records of it?

:scratch:
 
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JimB

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Sometimes people make mistakes and marry the wrong person. If you have married a total weasel why would God want you to muck up your whole future due to a mistake?

Ps 130


3 If you, O LORD, kept a record of sins,
O Lord, who could stand? 4 But with you there is forgiveness;
therefore you are feared. 5 I wait for the LORD, my soul waits,
and in his word I put my hope.

If God doent keep a record of sins how come some people in the church can keep records of it?

:scratch:

Why? Because, as some teach, man was made to keep rules and not, as Jesus taught, the law was made for man

~Jim

Remember the weekdays and keep them holy.
 
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Brucea

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According to scriptures

a preacher is not supposed to be remarried correct? Our church is in the midst of a transition. The pastor they have decided on (supposedly, we won't know for sure until Wed. night how the actual vote goes) was divorced and is now remarried. In his defense, his first wife had an affair and although she wanted a divorce, he didn't give her one until four years later. I don't know how long after that he remarried, but he is now remarried with 2 kids. I am really confuzzled about this. My DH thinks this is the man for our church. I believe my DH to be a Godly man. I just don't know if I can vote for a man that is going against Biblical principles. I think he is a wonderful man and he didn't hold anything back when questioned about this, but ... our church needs the RIGHT pastor now because we are in financial difficulties.

What say ye about this?

Yes divorced is the unpardonable sin! If a preacher has ever done it God immediately recalls their gift and usefulness to the body of Christ. He repents that He ever gave them the ability to lead and an anointing to walk in!

Perhaps the better way for a preacher is to kill any and all exspouses, seeing how murders can be restored but divorcees can not.

I WONDER IF WE NEED TO RETHINK OUR THEOLOGY?

To answer the sooth-sayers; no I have never been divorced!

Bruce A
 
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BananaCake

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This is a very difficult question and one I have wrestled with a lot.

I personally would have a very difficult time attending a church where the senior pastor was remarried after being saved. If he was divorced due to divorce or because his or her unbelieving spouse wanted the divorce, I see that as Biblical and would have no issue with it. But remarriage is another story.
 
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bithiah2

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This is a very difficult question and one I have wrestled with a lot.

I personally would have a very difficult time attending a church where the senior pastor was remarried after being saved. If he was divorced due to divorce or because his or her unbelieving spouse wanted the divorce, I see that as Biblical and would have no issue with it. But remarriage is another story.

OK...but what if you don't know the whole story? yes, there are ministers who deal treacherously with their wives as the Bible states, leave them for other women because they feel that they are no longer good enough, not their real mates, and so on. but there are some women who divorce their husbands for other men, they decide to leave the man, for as many reasons as the men claim to leave the women.
it is not always the man's fault, and God knows everyone's heart. the Bible says it is better to marry than to burn. it is certainly better for him in this case to remarry, then to be sleeping withsomeone who is not his wife. :blush:
it's not fair to judge someone or make blanket statements because of what WE don't like. i don't believe that a man is free to leave his wife just because he wants to. but he cannot control another person's choice either. let God be the judge. if he can preach the Word, and his heart is right before God, i would have nothing to say against him. you have to know the whole story before you can fairly say that. people are caught up in all kinds of situations. and salvation does not exempt anyone from having to go through them.
blessings
bithiah2
 
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JimB

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This is a very difficult question and one I have wrestled with a lot.

I personally would have a very difficult time attending a church where the senior pastor was remarried after being saved. If he was divorced due to divorce or because his or her unbelieving spouse wanted the divorce, I see that as Biblical and would have no issue with it. But remarriage is another story.

No one hates divorce more than a person who has experienced a divorce, especially when it was unwanted.

What if your spouse came to you tomorrow and told you they did not want to be married to you any longer and were filing for a divorce and you could resist it all you wanted but they were leaving and not coming back. And then, what if he did and never returned and your marriage ended. Would it be fair for you to be forced by uncaring and intolerant people to live the remainder of your life alone just because they wouldn’t like it if you remarried? That is a horrible burden to place on any human being and I am convinced that most of the anti-remarriage people would not live a year without remarrying if it happened to them—I’ve seen it happen too many times before.

~Jim

Remember the weekdays and keep them holy.
 
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JEBrady

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Apparently, polygamy was not only common in the First Century World but it was a problem in the church that the early Church Fathers had to address:


1. Justin Martyr (c.160):
"Your imprudent and blind masters [i.e., Jewish teachers] even until this time permit each man to have four or five wives. And if anyone sees a beautiful woman and desires to have her, they quote the doings of Jacob." [ANF, vol. 1, p. 266]


2. Irenaeus (c.180) condemns the Gnostics for, among other things, polygamy:
"Others, again, following upon Basilides and Carpocrates, have introduced promiscuous intercourse and a plurality of wives..." [ANF, vol. 1, p.353]


3. Tertullian (c.207) was also explicit:
"Chapter II.-Marriage Lawful, But Not Polygamy. We do not indeed forbid the union of man and woman, blest by God as the seminary of the human race, and devised for the replenishment of the earth and the furnishing of the world, and therefore permitted, yet Singly. For Adam was the one husband of Eve, and Eve his one wife, one woman, one rib. (ANF: Tertullian, To His Wife)

4. Methodius (cf.290) was clear on the issue, arguing that it had stopped at the time of the Prophets:
"The contracting of marriage with several wives had been done away with from the times of the prophets. For we read, 'Do not go after your lusts, but refrain yourself from your appetites'...And in another place, 'Let your fountain be blessed and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.' This plainly forbids a plurality of wives." [ANF, vol. 6, p.312]

5 The Pseudo-Clementine Literature boasts about how St. Thomas taught the Parthians [i.e., an Iranian culture] to abandon polygamy:
"But I shall give a still stronger proof of the matters in hand. For, behold, scarcely seven years have yet passed since the advent of the righteous and true Prophet; and in the course of these, inert of all nations coming to Judaea, and moved both by the signs and miracles Which they saw, and by the grandeur of His doctrine, received His faith; and then going back to their own countries, they rejected the lawless rites of the Gentiles, and their incestuous marriages. In short, among the Parthians-as Thomas, who is preaching the Gospel amongst them, has written to us-not many now are addicted to polygamy; nor among the Medes do many throw their dead to dogs; nor are the Persians pleased with intercourse with their mothers, or incestuous marriages with their daughters; nor do the Susian women practise the adulteries that were allowed them; nor has Genesis been able to force those into crimes whom the teaching of religion restrained. (ANF 8: "Book IX: Chapter XXIX.-The Gospel More Powerful Than 'Genesis.'"]

6. The Council of Neocaesarea a.d. 315 (circa) refers to a 'purification period' for polygamists. By that time, sinners had to 'sit out' of Church activities until they had demonstrated reformation. If a sin showed up on this list of canons, it was considered a 'bad sin'--and polygamy shows up here:
"Ancient Epitome of Canon III. The time (for doing penance and purification) of polygamists is well known. A zeal for penance may shorten it." [ANF]

7. Basil, Archbishop of Caesarea, mentioned it a number of times in his letters, generally concerning the period for exclusion from church for polygamists, calling it 'limited fornication'(!):
"IV. In the case of trigamy and polygamy they laid down the same rule, in proportion, as in the case of digamy; namely one year for digamy (some authorities say two years); for trigamy men are separated for three and often for four years; but this is no longer described as marriage at all, but as polygamy; nay rather as limited fornication. It is for this reason that the Lord said to the woman of Samaria, who had five husbands, "he whom thou now hast is not thy husband." He does not reckon those who had exceeded the limits of a second marriage as worthy of the title of husband or wife. In cases of trigamy we have accepted a seclusion of five years, not by the canons, but following the precept of our predecessors. Such offenders ought not to be altogether prohibited from the privileges of the Church; they should be considered deserving of hearing after two or three years, and afterwards of being permitted to stand in their place; but they must be kept from the communion of the good gift, and only restored to the place of communion after showing some fruit of repentance. [ANF: (CanonicaPrima.)To Amphilochius, concerning the Canons. Letter CLXXXVIII written c.347.]

~Jim


Remember the weekdays and keep them holy.

Thanks much for taking the time to post those responses. It's an area I've never studied but have seen it stated without support in other writing that polygamy really hardly existed then. It appears that wasn't quite the case.
 
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BananaCake

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OK...but what if you don't know the whole story? yes, there are ministers who deal treacherously with their wives as the Bible states, leave them for other women because they feel that they are no longer good enough, not their real mates, and so on. but there are some women who divorce their husbands for other men, they decide to leave the man, for as many reasons as the men claim to leave the women.
it is not always the man's fault, and God knows everyone's heart. the Bible says it is better to marry than to burn. it is certainly better for him in this case to remarry, then to be sleeping withsomeone who is not his wife. :blush:
it's not fair to judge someone or make blanket statements because of what WE don't like. i don't believe that a man is free to leave his wife just because he wants to. but he cannot control another person's choice either. let God be the judge. if he can preach the Word, and his heart is right before God, i would have nothing to say against him. you have to know the whole story before you can fairly say that. people are caught up in all kinds of situations. and salvation does not exempt anyone from having to go through them.
blessings
bithiah2

I'm not making blanket statements (it would benefit you to re-read what I actually wrote and also read my next response); I'm quoting Jesus and Paul and trying to follow what the Bible says on the topic. I'm not judging anyone's heart, but Paul does say to judge those in the church based on the standards set forth in Scripture. If the man has no self-control and can't "help" but have sex outside of marriage, then he definitely shouldn't be a pastor.
 
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BananaCake

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No one hates divorce more than a person who has experienced a divorce, especially when it was unwanted.

What if your spouse came to you tomorrow and told you they did not want to be married to you any longer and were filing for a divorce and you could resist it all you wanted but they were leaving and not coming back. And then, what if he did and never returned and your marriage ended. Would it be fair for you to be forced by uncaring and intolerant people to live the remainder of your life alone just because they wouldn’t like it if you remarried? That is a horrible burden to place on any human being and I am convinced that most of the anti-remarriage people would not live a year without remarrying if it happened to them—I’ve seen it happen too many times before.

~Jim

Remember the weekdays and keep them holy.

Believe me - I deal with these issues on a daily basis because of the ministry I do. And yes, if my husband left me, I would remain single because that's what I believe the Bible tells me to do. It's not a horrible burden in my eyes.

And not knowing anything about me, I really don't appreciate being called uncaring and intolerant. If a man's conscience doesn't allow him to eat meat, then let him not eat meat. My conscience reads Scripture and to me, it says divorce is only allowable in 2 instances, and even then, remarriage is questionable. That's all I said. To quote myself, "This is a very difficult question and one I have wrestled with a lot. I personally would have a very difficult time attending a church where the senior pastor was remarried after being saved." I didn't claim to have the corner on Biblical truth, nor did I even state that my view is the only right view. I didn't even say I wouldn't attend his church. In fact, I listen to Joyce Meyer all the time, and she was divorced as a saved person. So please - extend me the benefit of the doubt, re-read what I wrote in the 1st place, and give me the same amount of grace you yourself are asking for.
 
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JimB

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Believe me - I deal with these issues on a daily basis because of the ministry I do. And yes, if my husband left me, I would remain single because that's what I believe the Bible tells me to do. It's not a horrible burden in my eyes.

And not knowing anything about me, I really don't appreciate being called uncaring and intolerant. If a man's conscience doesn't allow him to eat meat, then let him not eat meat. My conscience reads Scripture and to me, it says divorce is only allowable in 2 instances, and even then, remarriage is questionable. That's all I said. To quote myself, "This is a very difficult question and one I have wrestled with a lot. I personally would have a very difficult time attending a church where the senior pastor was remarried after being saved." I didn't claim to have the corner on Biblical truth, nor did I even state that my view is the only right view. I didn't even say I wouldn't attend his church. In fact, I listen to Joyce Meyer all the time, and she was divorced as a saved person. So please - extend me the benefit of the doubt, re-read what I wrote in the 1st place, and give me the same amount of grace you yourself are asking for.

Don’t be so defensive, Banana, no one is calling you names. It was a general statement and you will have to decide yourself whether you think the shoe fits.

You do not know how you would react if something as traumatic as a divorce happened to you. I know, first hand. I was a pastor whose wife left him and who later filed for and gained a divorce. I did not want it. I resisted it. And for a decade following that painful rejection, I remained single until God gave me—I repeat, GOD GAVE ME—a wife to whom I have now been married for 12 happy years and together we have seven beautiful grandchildren.

If I wanted to make this personal, I could say I resent you insinuating my marriage is illegitimate.

Furthermore, after fifteen years out of pastoral ministry, God directed me—I repeat, GOD DIRECTED ME!—to plant a church in our city. The church has grown over the past five years and lives have been transformed because I was obedient to God, divorce, remarriage and all.

If I wanted to make this personal, I could say I resent you insinuating my ministry is illegitimate.

So, let’s not take these general remarks about divorce and remarriage personal, whatayasay?.

~Jim


Remember the weekdays and keep them holy.
 
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bithiah2

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I'm not making blanket statements (it would benefit you to re-read what I actually wrote and also read my next response); I'm quoting Jesus and Paul and trying to follow what the Bible says on the topic. I'm not judging anyone's heart, but Paul does say to judge those in the church based on the standards set forth in Scripture. If the man has no self-control and can't "help" but have sex outside of marriage, then he definitely shouldn't be a pastor.

I'm so glad that you are not God.
:amen:
bithiah2

God bless you
 
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:eek:

Are you saying that there is no “historical” evidence for polygamy? Heck, the Bible—one of the great “historical” records of all time—is full of polygamists from Abraham to David to Solomon.

~Jim

In your hatred of evil do not forget to love good.

There is no conclusive evidence to support that polygamy was a common practice among that group of people at that point in time.
 
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Polygamy was a pagan societal customin first century cultures that was in danger of creeping into the church and its leadership.

Here’s what one Baptist preacher, D. A. Carson, said (here) in the face of Baptists about the “husband of one wife” qualification which Baptist doctrine holds concerns divorce and remarriage:
“Some people interpret this verse to mean that an elder must not be a polygamist; that is, not somebody who is married to two or more wives. What people object to about this interpretation is that no one in the Christian church was married to two or three wives, so why should it be stipulated at all? Moreover, it is argued, in the first century, polygamy wasn’t all that common. Why then do you have to stipulate this particular thing? But it can be shown that there was more polygamy in the first century than some people think, especially in the strata of society where people felt above the common rule. Herod the Great had ten wives. Now, he didn’t have them all at once because he murdered two of them, but he had several at a time. Both in the aristocracy and in the borderlands of the Empire – places like Lystra – polygamy was not all that uncommon. If you go to Africa today, you discover that in some tribes polygamy is still not all that uncommon. The more power you have – if you are the chief, for instance – the more likely it is that you have a plurality of wives. The number of wives is connected with your public persona; it’s almost bound up with the office, so if you’re a chief, you’re likely to have four or five wives. For a start, you can afford them. In such a culture, polygamy almost seems to be a kind of leadership qualification. But in the church, it’s the reverse: polygamy disqualifies you for leadership.”




I agree.


~Jim

In your hatred of evil do not forget to love good.
Jim..for what it is worth...I believe the Scripture was actually refering to polygamy...all I was saying was that there was no conclusive evidence for that conclusion. There is also no conclusive evidence for believing that the Scripture is refering to divorce.

I think it is something rooted in culture more so than doctrine or history.

All I was saying was that in order to be fair we have to say that the Bible is inconclusive on the matter...and so is the church for that matter...at least the denomination I attend is. (AoG)

Blessings
 
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I believe the biggest reason why some churches hang on to the "no senior ministers who are remarried" doctrine is because it is a place to draw a line. If we did not draw a line there and said it was OK, then what about two divorces, or three or four.

Who is to say that someone who has had four or five divorces is unfit for the ministry? Maintaining a standard is important.

For that matter...what is it about polygamy (having two or more wives at the same time) that would disqualify someone from being qualified as a minister? Enjoying life a little too much? LOL

The truth is that it is a disqualification from the standpoint of what is culturally acceptable.
 
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New_Wineskin

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I believe the biggest reason why some churches hang on to the "no senior ministers who are remarried" doctrine is because it is a place to draw a line. If we did not draw a line there and said it was OK, then what about two divorces, or three or four.

Who is to say that someone who has had four or five divorces is unfit for the ministry? Maintaining a standard is important.

For that matter...what is it about polygamy (having two or more wives at the same time) that would disqualify someone from being qualified as a minister? Enjoying life a little too much? LOL

The truth is that it is a disqualification from the standpoint of what is culturally acceptable.


Good post . Something to think about .

They could leave it in the hands of the members . If they wanted such a leader to stay , they could say so . I could see a lot of members leaving over something like that . But , then again , how many leave over something the heirarchy does ? Look at the Catholic scandal ... I don't know a single person ( not including of a victim or someone close to a victim ) that left . Of course , they threatened the salvation of anyone who left because of it .
 
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JimB

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I believe the biggest reason why some churches hang on to the "no senior ministers who are remarried" doctrine is because it is a place to draw a line. If we did not draw a line there and said it was OK, then what about two divorces, or three or four.

Who is to say that someone who has had four or five divorces is unfit for the ministry? Maintaining a standard is important.

For that matter...what is it about polygamy (having two or more wives at the same time) that would disqualify someone from being qualified as a minister? Enjoying life a little too much? LOL

The truth is that it is a disqualification from the standpoint of what is culturally acceptable.

But who are we to go drawing lines around what God has not drawn a line around? This is His business, not ours. What drawing a line means is that we want to present the best image to the world so they will think we have more than we do—so no divorcees on stage; you make us look bad.

Drawing lines is what Pharisees did and here’s what Jesus said about them: For they [Pharisees] bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men (Matt. 23.4-5).

The usual reaction to that is, “Well, we have to draw a line somewhere.” My response to that is, “Oh? How do you know? You haven’t tried mercy yet.”

Then I have the opportunity to quote my favorite verse, and one that encapsulates the Christian Gospel: “Mercy triumphs over judgment” (James 2.13).

~Jim

Remember the weekdays and keep them holy, too.


 
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heron

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I could see a lot of members leaving over something like that .
Leaving is not always a negative thing. It is a choice to find a better fit, or follow where God wants them. Other people will fill in the gap, who do find it a good fit.

I listen to Joyce Meyer all the time, and she was divorced as a saved person.
Perfect example. Millions of people respect her and don't mind seeing her as their source of teaching.

Who is to say that someone who has had four or five divorces is unfit for the ministry? Maintaining a standard is important.
That is why a congregation meets the person, hears them speaks, and chooses what they feel comfortable with. Not every congregation is comfortable with the same things (and of course not every member).

We don't need to draw a universal line, because each church will do that for themselves.

For that matter...what is it about polygamy (having two or more wives at the same time) that would disqualify someone from being qualified as a minister? Enjoying life a little too much? LOL
After hearing CNN interviews of Warren Jeffs' congregation, I think that a polygamist does not have time nor should s/he make time to be a pastor, because they already have TOO MANY responsibilities to people under their care.

I even think that's part of Paul's reason for discouraging women in leadership -- that without birth control, most of them had kids to watch. Another topic... way off track.
 
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