DIVORCE

[Brightmoon]

Emotional abuse can be just as bad as physical without leaving bruises that other people can see. Those bruises are on the inside (to your emotions and mind ) and the stress is just as toxic and as physically harmful. I watched my mother tolerate my father’s verbal and emotional abuse for about 13 years . He never hit her. When she left him I applauded. Abusers rarely change, they usually just get sneakier

 

[Episaw]

Emotional abuse can be just as bad as physical without leaving bruises that other people can see. Those bruises are on the inside (to your emotions and mind ) and the stress is just as toxic and as physically harmful. I watched my mother tolerate my father’s verbal and emotional abuse for about 13 years . He never hit her. When she left him I applauded. Abusers rarely change, they usually just get sneakier

I agree except that everyone can change because if they can't then the gospel is a limited gospel. And as I have said there is an exception to every rule that is why God DID allow divorce in very narrow circumstances.

If we take these arguments to the extreme we can say God has failed because Christians are being put in prison or are being murdered for being Christians.

I read a book about Chinese Christians who said they did not want to be prayed for to save them from persecution. They wanted to be prayed for that they would be counted worthy during persecution.

 

[Soldier84]

I did not cast judgment. I asked a question. As I said later, the New Testament allows for divorce, but not as a rule. Rather as an exception and when you grow up in an environment where no Christians divorced and end up in an environment where Christian divorce at the same rate as the world, you tend to ask questions. At least I do.

But I do realise there are many Christians out there who want to be left alone and prefer not to rock the boat and face reality.

Please forgive my misinterpretation of your post, perhaps it's guilt in me over my own failed marriage that read it in an accusatory tone.

People today don't have the same values as past generations. The new gods of America (indeed, much of the world) are warping the minds of even those who should know better.

Although it's the sacrilige of marriage that stands out to you, I see a much broader attack on all things once held sacred. Marriage is a casualty of a global war on God. But I'm sure you're tracking this, as you noted in your original post the nature of your recent reading. Today is a blessing, regardless of the state of the world. We have a future beyond it.

 

[Episaw]

Yes

Please forgive my misinterpretation of your post, perhaps it's guilt in me over my own failed marriage that read it in an accusatory tone.

People today don't have the same values as past generations. The new gods of America (indeed, much of the world) are warping the minds of even those who should know better.

Although it's the sacrilige of marriage that stands out to you, I see a much broader attack on all things once held sacred. Marriage is a casualty of a global war on God. But I'm sure you're tracking this, as you noted in your original post the nature of your recent reading. Today is a blessing, regardless of the state of the world. We have a future beyond it.

Yes I agree. Satan is on a full frontal attack against God and everything that he stands for. What you might call Custer's Last Stand but he ain't going to win.

Galatians 5:1 Then stand firm in the freedom with which Christ made us free and do not be held again with a yoke of slavery.

Sad to say too many Christians have submitted themselves to the yoke of slavery that Satan has thrown at us.

 

[cvanwey]

I have been doing a lot of reading lately about the last days and end times.

Some of the books and articles that I have read point out that Christians are divorcing at the same rate as non-Christians. I have difficulty comprehending such a thing. I grew up at a time when I cannot remember one single Christian divorcing. I can't remember many non-Christians divorcing.

My wife and I have been married for 48 years and although we have been through some difficult times, divorcing was never an option.

When we got married we vowed unto death us do part. Whenever we have been through difficult times and it would be very easy to throw in the towel and divorce, I am always reminded of my vow.

If we have not died and our marriage has not died then divorce is not an option and if our marriage has not died and it hasn't not whilst we have breath as God can solve any problem.

I admit we have been very fortunate as we have not been unfaithful to each other. I have not beaten my wife....once or anything like that, but we are not perfect and like most marriages, it needs working on. When you stop working on it you tend to throw in the towel and take the easy road and divorce.

So the question is, how on earth can you be an example to the non-believer if you have been divorced? Doesn't your divorce queer the pitch for every believer?

Many believers and non-believers understand, that under the tenets of Christianity, it is not the works or deeds which bring salvation, it is belief in Jesus, period. Morals are irrelevant. Belief is Christ is key. All will sin, and all will fall short, and require salvation as their only restitution. "Those without sin, shall cast the first stone.'

 

[Episaw]

Morals are irrelevant.

In the words of one famous tennis player "You can't be serious."

 

[Brightmoon]

I was gonna be charitable and pretend that was a typo. I still think it’s a poor word choice (but I’ve met some crazies who would probably agree )

 

[Episaw]

I was gonna be charitable and pretend that was a typo. I still think it’s a poor word choice (but I’ve met some crazies who would probably agree )

I don't have typo's as I have an automatic spell and grammar checker in operation.

 

[Brightmoon]

Oops I meant cvanwey’s comment about morals

 

[Episaw]

Oops I meant cvanwey’s comment about morals

That is why it is important to include the person's quote in your reply.

 

[cvanwey]

In the words of one famous tennis player "You can't be serious."

Tell where morals apply to belief for salvation.

 

[Sabertooth]

Morals can't save anybody, but Salvation can give us power to live in righteousness.

Paul wrote in Romans 6:1-2,
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

And in verse 16,
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?"

Repentance isn't a license for Christians to sin. It is a means for them to recover righteousness.

 

[Brightmoon]

Morals can't save anybody, but Salvation can give us power to live in righteousness.

Paul wrote in Romans 6:1-2,
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

And in verse 16,
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?"

Repentance isn't a license for Christians to sin. It is a means for them to recover righteousness.

I’d still rather not be around an amoral psychopath

 

[Dave L]

I have been doing a lot of reading lately about the last days and end times.

Some of the books and articles that I have read point out that Christians are divorcing at the same rate as non-Christians. I have difficulty comprehending such a thing. I grew up at a time when I cannot remember one single Christian divorcing. I can't remember many non-Christians divorcing.

My wife and I have been married for 48 years and although we have been through some difficult times, divorcing was never an option.

When we got married we vowed unto death us do part. Whenever we have been through difficult times and it would be very easy to throw in the towel and divorce, I am always reminded of my vow.

If we have not died and our marriage has not died then divorce is not an option and if our marriage has not died and it hasn't not whilst we have breath as God can solve any problem.

I admit we have been very fortunate as we have not been unfaithful to each other. I have not beaten my wife....once or anything like that, but we are not perfect and like most marriages, it needs working on. When you stop working on it you tend to throw in the towel and take the easy road and divorce.

So the question is, how on earth can you be an example to the non-believer if you have been divorced? Doesn't your divorce queer the pitch for every believer?

Divorce was an Old Testament provision for the hard hearted. After Christ fulfilled the Law on the cross, the New Covenant replaced it. Some of the Ten Commandments found their way into the New Covenant as commentary and instruction. But divorce, a peripheral doctrine of the Law did not. Simply stated, divorce is not an option for believers in the NT. And people are just as married leaving divorce court as they were when they arrived. Divorce laws are as valid today as abortion laws. They are not worth the paper they are written on.

 

[SPF]

Simply stated, divorce is not an option for believers in the NT

Matthew 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

I Corinthians 7:13-15 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, he must not send her husband away for the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.

There are actually 2 exclusions listed in Scripture in which both divorce and remarriage for a Believer is permitted. The first is adultery. The second, is when an unbelieving spouse leaves. I think Paul's exposition in Corinthians really demonstrates the uniqueness of Christian marriage.

 

[Brightmoon]

So you feel that a spouse can live with continual emotional abuse and/ or violence as long as they don’t cheat. It’s ok if they end up in a psych ward, the hospital or dead as long as they’re stuck with each other. Bible or no Bible an abusive spouse needs to be dumped and if they want to start over with a good relationship , good on them .

 

[SPF]

So you feel that a spouse can live with continual emotional abuse and/ or violence as long as they don’t cheat. It’s ok if they end up in a psych ward, the hospital or dead as long as they’re stuck with each other. Bible or no Bible an abusive spouse needs to be dumped and if they want to start over with a good relationship , good on them .

Not sure who you’re talking to, I certainly didn’t say that nor would I ever recommend a spouse stay in the home of an abusive spouse.

Marriage was the first institute put in place by God, it even predated the law. I think Scripture paints marriage in a very serious light. It is a covenant, and while culture today doesn’t take covenants seriously, God does. A marriage between Believers is sealed by God, it is a cord of three strands.

Scripture is clear that the only act that can sever the one flesh covenant is adultery. If you don’t like that, then your beef is with God, not me.

Choosing a spouse should be taken prayerfully, seriously, with good premarital counseling, and lots of accountability. But that doesn’t often happen, and people unwisely get married.

So personally I try to make sure all my beliefs are dictated by Scripture and not my emotions and opinions, and I see only adultery as possible of severing the one flesh covenant formed between two Believers.

But again that being said, if there is an abusive relationship, there’s nothing in Scripture that says the victimized spouse needs to stay in the home. They should get out.

 

[Traveling teacher]

I have been doing a lot of reading lately about the last days and end times.

Some of the books and articles that I have read point out that Christians are divorcing at the same rate as non-Christians. I have difficulty comprehending such a thing. I grew up at a time when I cannot remember one single Christian divorcing. I can't remember many non-Christians divorcing.

My wife and I have been married for 48 years and although we have been through some difficult times, divorcing was never an option.

When we got married we vowed unto death us do part. Whenever we have been through difficult times and it would be very easy to throw in the towel and divorce, I am always reminded of my vow.

If we have not died and our marriage has not died then divorce is not an option and if our marriage has not died and it hasn't not whilst we have breath as God can solve any problem.


I admit we have been very fortunate as we have not been unfaithful to each other. I have not beaten my wife....once or anything like that, but we are not perfect and like most marriages, it needs working on. When you stop working on it you tend to throw in the towel and take the easy road and divorce.

So the question is, how on earth can you be an example to the non-believer if you have been divorced? Doesn't your divorce queer the pitch for every believer?

to answer your question

those who have come to Christ after divorce...
or even those Christians who divorced......

they should talk to young couples and admit thier mistakes
and basically say don't do as I do.....
that is the best testimony you can have.....

 

[Brightmoon]

Not sure who you’re talking to, I certainly didn’t say that nor would I ever recommend a spouse stay in the home of an abusive spouse.

Marriage was the first institute put in place by God, it even predated the law. I think Scripture paints marriage in a very serious light. It is a covenant, and while culture today doesn’t take covenants seriously, God does. A marriage between Believers is sealed by God, it is a cord of three strands.

Scripture is clear that the only act that can sever the one flesh covenant is adultery. If you don’t like that, then your beef is with God, not me.

Choosing a spouse should be taken prayerfully, seriously, with good premarital counseling, and lots of accountability. But that doesn’t often happen, and people unwisely get married.

So personally I try to make sure all my beliefs are dictated by Scripture and not my emotions and opinions, and I see only adultery as possible of severing the one flesh covenant formed between two Believers.

But again that being said, if there is an abusive relationship, there’s nothing in Scripture that says the victimized spouse needs to stay in the home. They should get out.

You obviously don’t know any abusers . they need to keep control and as long as there is a legal string they’ll pull it. Spouses who are married to such a sociopathic or narcissistic person need to sever as many ties as they can . And that includes divorce and sometimes moving to another country, yes I meant country . My son’s mother-in law was in a relationship like that and she had to leave her country or he would have killed her. There’s Bible based fantasies like- no divorce except for adultery and there’s the reality of living with a sociopath or narcissist who just happens not to cheat on you.

 

[jayem]

But it doesn't alter the fact that when I was growing up, I did not know of one single Christian couple who divorced. That tells me the parameters have changed for Christians today and marriage is no longer sacred. if it was, you would fight like hell to keep it intact.

I see your profile states Australia. I'm not familiar with that country's laws. But in the USA, divorce laws have been liberalized over the last 40 years. To my knowledge, all states allow no-fault divorce. A legal divorce can be granted simply for irreconcilable differences, without a requirement to prove misconduct by either spouse. So it's only natural. Easier divorce = more divorces.