Divorce?

[William II]

Has divorce become more "accepted" in Christian communities these days? While taking a hardline stance on many biblical issues...a lot of Christians have a very loose view on divorce. I've known pastors who have been divorced, Elders, deacons, members.

In the New Testament, Jesus is PRETTY clear about his feelings on divorce...

Matthew 19:3-9

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”


I think it's pretty straightforward here...no divorce as a matter of convenience. Adultery is different...but it's not the only reason people get divorced these days.

What are your thoughts? Should Christians take a more hardline stance on divorce and the sexual immorality it entails?

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

I think it is ridiculous how those in the church have the same rate of divorce as those in the world. Children of God must be held to a higher standard. Those in the pulpit, and in positions authority in the church to an even higher standard. The first thing they need to learn is love is a choice, so yes I agree with you.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

well some consistency would help the situation . the amount of suffering souls experience based on hypocrisy is only compounded if they're judging without mercy in other areas .. especially if its the same sin with a different face .

 

[Cody2]

Many Christians today believe that if a man has ever been divorced, then he cannot serve in the ministry. This is far from the truth and will be proven with scripture. There are three reasons in the Bible where divorce is allowed.

One reason for divorce is if the other party departs according to the below verse. It goes on to say that the innocent party is not under bondage, which means they can remarry and it not be a sin.

1 Corinthians 7:15 “But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.” KJV

Remarriage is also allowed if the other party dies. The Bible says that the living party is not bound.

1 Corinthians 7:39 “The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.” KJV

Divorce and remarriage is allowed if the other party commits fornication.

Matthew 19:9 “And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.” KJV

According to the next verse, a Pastor has to be the husband of one wife, but it does not say that a Pastor cannot be divorced. The only way for one to think such a thing is to misinterpret or add words to the verse. This verse is speaking of polygamy.

1 Timothy 3:2 “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;” KJV

Many people say that if a divorced man remarries, then he has two living wives, which makes him a polygamist. This is no where to be found in the Bible. When a man gets a divorce, whether it be for adultery, abandonment or death, he has zero wives. If a man is divorced, then the woman he divorced is no longer his wife according to our law and God, who gave reasons that allow divorce, without bondage.

Remarried man whose first wife died = Qualified
Remarried man whose first wife committed adultery = Qualified
Remarried man whose first wife left = Qualified

In conclusion, 1 Timothy 3:2 does not say a Pastor cannot be divorced, rather it condemns polygamy and adultery. Scripture has given three reasons a person can get divorced and remarried without it being a sin.

 

[classicalhero]

"As in the day of Noah so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. They were eating and drinking, and in marriage and given in marriage". Unfortunately many people who claim to be "Christian" are in word only and not in deed.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Many Christians today believe that if a man has ever been divorced, then he cannot serve in the ministry. This is far from the truth and will be proven with scripture. There are three reasons in the Bible where divorce is allowed.

One reason for divorce is if the other party departs according to the below verse. It goes on to say that the innocent party is not under bondage, which means they can remarry and it not be a sin.

1 Corinthians 7:15 “But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.” KJV

Remarriage is also allowed if the other party dies. The Bible says that the living party is not bound.

1 Corinthians 7:39 “The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.” KJV

Divorce and remarriage is allowed if the other party commits fornication.

Matthew 19:9 “And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.” KJV

According to the next verse, a Pastor has to be the husband of one wife, but it does not say that a Pastor cannot be divorced. The only way for one to think such a thing is to misinterpret or add words to the verse. This verse is speaking of polygamy.

1 Timothy 3:2 “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;” KJV

Many people say that if a divorced man remarries, then he has two living wives, which makes him a polygamist. This is no where to be found in the Bible. When a man gets a divorce, whether it be for adultery, abandonment or death, he has zero wives. If a man is divorced, then the woman he divorced is no longer his wife according to our law and God, who gave reasons that allow divorce, without bondage.

Remarried man whose first wife died = Qualified
Remarried man whose first wife committed adultery = Qualified
Remarried man whose first wife left = Qualified

In conclusion, 1 Timothy 3:2 does not say a Pastor cannot be divorced, rather it condemns polygamy and adultery. Scripture has given three reasons a person can get divorced and remarried without it being a sin.

Slippery slope, if one form of sexual list sin is permissible then all eventually become "okay"

 

[dhh712]

Slippery slope, if one form of sexual list sin is permissible then all eventually become "okay"

I'm not understanding where you are coming up with how there is any permissiveness of sin being discussed in the post you've quoted. Would you please clarify this for me? Note that only the party to whom adultery has been committed is allowed to remarry (or the party who has been deserted). The offending party (the adulterer and the deserter) is not allowed to remarry. They have forfeited that right by violating their vow which they made before God. The party which has been offended is allowed to remarry since they did nothing to violate their vow before God; thus, as it is written in Scripture, God shows mercy on this suffering one and allows them a choice of another marriage partner if they so wish for one.

I think some people may not consider how serious a marriage vow is. It is a vow before the living God. One should not come into such a contract with the Almighty Creator if they think they might not be able to live up to their side of the bargain.

 

[theophilus40]

The Bible says that at the end of this age many will depart from the faith and follow the teachings of demons. It appears to me that the growing acceptance of divorce and remarriage is part of this departure.

There are times when it is permissible for someone who is divorced to remarry but in many cases it might be better not to exercise this right. Unbelievers usually don't understand this distinction and might interpret it as approval of remarriage after any divorce.

Many preachers speak out against same sex marriage as being a threat to God's plan for marriage but fail to speak out against divorce, which is a greater threat because it is much more common. We should oppose same sex marriage but we are being hypocrites if we don't oppose divorce and remarriage just as strongly.

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

The Bible says that at the end of this age many will depart from the faith and follow the teachings of demons. It appears to me that the growing acceptance of divorce and remarriage is part of this departure.

There are times when it is permissible for someone who is divorced to remarry but in many cases it might be better not to exercise this right. Unbelievers usually don't understand this distinction and might interpret it as approval of remarriage after any divorce.

Many preachers speak out against same sex marriage as being a threat to God's plan for marriage but fail to speak out against divorce, which is a greater threat because it is much more common. We should oppose same sex marriage but we are being hypocrites if we don't oppose divorce and remarriage just as strongly.

 

[cubanito]

I think it is ridiculous how those in the church have the same rate of divorce as those in the world. Children of God must be held to a higher standard. Those in the pulpit, and in positions authority in the church to an even higher standard. The first thing they need to learn is love is a choice, so yes I agree with you.

I used to believe the above until more careful analysis revealed otherwise:

FactChecker: Divorce Rate Among Christians | TGC | The Gospel Coalition

Words like "Christian" and "Evangelical" are being redefined into extinction. Surveys often pose questions and gather statistics in misleading ways. Perhaps at times this is not intentional, and at times it seems it is.

It is true that many Churches today are following society in reducing the importance of sin in general, and divorce specifically. Then again, most so-called "christian" churches are so apostate I do not think they are Christian at all. There are some denominations, like the Southern Baptist, the PCA, OPC and others that remain generally Christian. The statistics are skewed by the many that are not.

JR

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm not understanding where you are coming up with how there is any permissiveness of sin being discussed in the post you've quoted. Would you please clarify this for me? Note that only the party to whom adultery has been committed is allowed to remarry (or the party who has been deserted). The offending party (the adulterer and the deserter) is not allowed to remarry. They have forfeited that right by violating their vow which they made before God. The party which has been offended is allowed to remarry since they did nothing to violate their vow before God; thus, as it is written in Scripture, God shows mercy on this suffering one and allows them a choice of another marriage partner if they so wish for one.

I think some people may not consider how serious a marriage vow is. It is a vow before the living God. One should not come into such a contract with the Almighty Creator if they think they might not be able to live up to their side of the bargain.

What I was explaining was that in the realm of interpretation . that if divorce is okay . then so is homosexuality . because one is approved of by not disapproving .. the other cannot be disapproved of before the angelic courts by virtue of hypocrisy . so such prayers to change society will not even reach God let alone the angels that surround God .

 

[cubanito]

What is worse than sin?

Aproving of sin.

I am a glutton. This is destructive to the body God gave me, and listed right next to to homosexuality in some lists of sin/

However, I do not parade my belly in pride and demand that others approve of my behaviour. No, while yet I sin, I acknowledge it as sin, and bed forgiveness.

I could hide behind the excuse that "God made me this way." There is NO evidence for homosexuality haveing a genetic basis: identical twins raised apart have no significantly greater chance of having the same sexual orientation than the general population. However, there is very clear genetic evidence that obesity has a genetic link. So the homosexual has no genetic link, but the glutton does.

Still, that genetic "excuse" which I could use and is NOT available to those with same sex attraction, is NO EXCUSE AT ALL.

There are explicit times in which divorce is acceptable. When my first wife took up with my best friend I went to the elders of my Church. They sent me to councelling with the clear understanding that if my wife would repent I was to take her back. After some time of her persisting, they freed me to pursue a divorce if I chose, which I did. There is NO time homosexual behaviour is acceptable.

Now, is it true tha the lax attitude towards divorce many Churches display place them in an untenable position to decry homosexual behaviour? YES, I totally agree with that. Just as the approval of slavery and later segregation by many Churches in the past is a shame to be repented of.

But not the Churches I attend....their view of marriage is rather solemn.

However, even in those Churches were divorced is winked at, I do not remember seeing a "Divorce Pride Parade."

The problem with homosexuals now in not just that they sin, but that they are forcing others to CELEBRATE their sin as a good thing. Businesses are being closed for the refusal to photograph and bake cakes for homosexual "weddings." Adoption agencies are being driven out of states because they refuse to place children with same sex couples.

When was the last divorcing couple that demanded the Church approve their divorce? Oh yeah, King Henry VIII, and the shameful start of the Anglican "church".

When I sought a divorce at mine, I was a SUPPLICANT, and had my elders refused to grant me the right to divorce I would have NEVER thought of suing or even speaking ill of them.

There is a HUGE difference between those who divorce and today's homosexuals and it relates to pride and intolerance.

JR

 

[Gregory Thompson]

There is a HUGE difference between those who divorce and today's homosexuals and it relates to pride and intolerance.

JR

In the eyes of God there is no difference, such differences you have outlined are excuses, and as is illustrated in the garden excuses and blaming one another just leads outside of God's presence .

I was simply making an observation, the toleration of one similar sin in the assembly and the revulsion towards another of the same class is one of the reasons the "family values" agenda does not have any heavenly clout .. perhaps as it may have once had .

 

[Messy]

Adultery is different...but it's not the only reason people get divorced these days.

Pfff I know no christian personally where it's not adultery and if you wait long enough you'll eventually get it and don't forget the porn invasion where it in my opinion all started with.

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

What is worse than sin?

Aproving of sin.

I am a glutton. This is destructive to the body God gave me, and listed right next to to homosexuality in some lists of sin/

However, I do not parade my belly in pride and demand that others approve of my behaviour. No, while yet I sin, I acknowledge it as sin, and bed forgiveness.

I could hide behind the excuse that "God made me this way." There is NO evidence for homosexuality haveing a genetic basis: identical twins raised apart have no significantly greater chance of having the same sexual orientation than the general population. However, there is very clear genetic evidence that obesity has a genetic link. So the homosexual has no genetic link, but the glutton does.

Still, that genetic "excuse" which I could use and is NOT available to those with same sex attraction, is NO EXCUSE AT ALL.

There are explicit times in which divorce is acceptable. When my first wife took up with my best friend I went to the elders of my Church. They sent me to councelling with the clear understanding that if my wife would repent I was to take her back. After some time of her persisting, they freed me to pursue a divorce if I chose, which I did. There is NO time homosexual behaviour is acceptable.

Now, is it true tha the lax attitude towards divorce many Churches display place them in an untenable position to decry homosexual behaviour? YES, I totally agree with that. Just as the approval of slavery and later segregation by many Churches in the past is a shame to be repented of.

But not the Churches I attend....their view of marriage is rather solemn.

However, even in those Churches were divorced is winked at, I do not remember seeing a "Divorce Pride Parade."

The problem with homosexuals now in not just that they sin, but that they are forcing others to CELEBRATE their sin as a good thing. Businesses are being closed for the refusal to photograph and bake cakes for homosexual "weddings." Adoption agencies are being driven out of states because they refuse to place children with same sex couples.

When was the last divorcing couple that demanded the Church approve their divorce? Oh yeah, King Henry VIII, and the shameful start of the Anglican "church".

When I sought a divorce at mine, I was a SUPPLICANT, and had my elders refused to grant me the right to divorce I would have NEVER thought of suing or even speaking ill of them.

There is a HUGE difference between those who divorce and today's homosexuals and it relates to pride and intolerance.

JR

 

[dhh712]

What I was explaining was that in the realm of interpretation . that if divorce is okay . then so is homosexuality . because one is approved of by not disapproving .. the other cannot be disapproved of before the angelic courts by virtue of hypocrisy . so such prayers to change society will not even reach God let alone the angels that surround God .

I'm not sure how much interpretation is involved in "But I say unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife (except it be for fornication) causes her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced, commits adultery" (matt: 5:32). Do you have another way of interpreting that besides divorce is permitted only if adultery is committed? (I would agree that the desertion seems unbiblical--at least I don't have a clear case for it, but that can be disputed--yet it seems quite clear to me that there's nothing else that can be interpreted by that verse so I would be interested in hearing some varieties of interpretations that show how this is saying no divorce is permitted under any circumstances).

In the eyes of God there is no difference, such differences you have outlined are excuses, and as is illustrated in the garden excuses and blaming one another just leads outside of God's presence .

I was simply making an observation, the toleration of one similar sin in the assembly and the revulsion towards another of the same class is one of the reasons the "family values" agenda does not have any heavenly clout .. perhaps as it may have once had .

If there were any tolerance of sin going on then it would make a difference, but there isn't. Divorcing for fornication is permissible according to the Bible (therefore it is not a sin). There is however a great difference between being comfortable in sin (as it would appear some people are by the great celebration of homosexuality that current society has embarked on) and abhorring it. I would imagine you would understand from your biblical readings that there isn't any way we can not sin while here on earth--I'm not sure how that is to be handled in any other way except for daily repentance before God. How are we to demonstrate that we aren't tolerating it, that it is not something we as being of the spirit are comfortable with? I don't know, I think it is a matter of individual repentance and community fellowship with others of the church for instruction and correction.

I don't think gay pride parades and other such nonsense are indicative of a sorrowful people repented for their inability to live a perfect life free of any sin here on earth. To me it seems demonstrative of a people who are arrogant in their thinking that they do not have to submit to the authority of God.

Pfff I know no christian personally where it's not adultery and if you wait long enough you'll eventually get it and don't forget the porn invasion where it in my opinion all started with.

I agree with you on this idea, I think a good percentage if not most is due to adultery. This society, from my impression of it, is so hyper-sexualized; where I used to live (thank the dear Lord I am not there anymore) at work, almost every comment people made was inverted into some sexual innuendo (and I was working with middle-aged people most of whom were professing Christians). It was so disgusting and many times such a trial for me to have to be around people who it seemed that that was all that was on their minds. Thankfully where I am now I don't experience that (at least as of yet).

But I agree with you on that point--adultery seems like the common practice in (a lot of) churches as well as outside of them.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm not sure how much interpretation is involved in "But I say unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife (except it be for fornication) causes her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced, commits adultery" (matt: 5:32). Do you have another way of interpreting that besides divorce is permitted only if adultery is committed? (I would agree that the desertion seems unbiblical--at least I don't have a clear case for it, but that can be disputed--yet it seems quite clear to me that there's nothing else that can be interpreted by that verse so I would be interested in hearing some varieties of interpretations that show how this is saying no divorce is permitted under any circumstances).

the same context said looking at someone with lust in your heart is adultery . the reference of eye lust seems to be drawing from an obscure passage in job where he made a covenant with his eyes to not stare at young maidens . it didn't even specify that the person had to be married to guilty of adultery . it's basically speaking of how all sexual sin is the same one sin .

Jesus overall is speaking of how all sin starts in the heart and it is all the same to God regardless of how it manifests . James elaborates on this as well saying breaking one point makes one guilty of all .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If there were any tolerance of sin going on then it would make a difference, but there isn't. Divorcing for fornication is permissible according to the Bible (therefore it is not a sin). There is however a great difference between being comfortable in sin (as it would appear some people are by the great celebration of homosexuality that current society has embarked on) and abhorring it. I would imagine you would understand from your biblical readings that there isn't any way we can not sin while here on earth--I'm not sure how that is to be handled in any other way except for daily repentance before God. How are we to demonstrate that we aren't tolerating it, that it is not something we as being of the spirit are comfortable with? I don't know, I think it is a matter of individual repentance and community fellowship with others of the church for instruction and correction.

The gospels seems to have a rabbinical discourse about divorce, because elsewhere Jesus said "from the beginning it was not so"

so you cannot say "it's adam and eve not adam and steve" then say on the other hand . it is okay to divorce according to there being adultery . choose one premise to interpret from, either the beginning or the law . or the law of liberty .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

the bible says provisions for divorce are provided for hardened hearts . but Jesus also teaches "the next level" teaching "from the beginning it was not so"

this is how divorce and homosexuality connect in premise .

 

[cubanito]

While excusing the sin of divorce is bad and all too frequent; one does not see an active promotion of divorce by Christian churches. Again, one does not see "Divorce Parades" or divorced people forcing others to accept their choice as good using the Government to shut down debate. There are Churches that refuse to appoint divorced elders and they have never faced persecution for this.

Homosexuality is worse than divorce in at least this way. There are other reasons why it is worse than divorce that I've chosen not to bring up; but the refusal to see how it is worse to persecute those who will not call evil good than merely to ignore an evil is indicative of the OP's moral equivalence confusion.

JR