Divorce : Depressing and Shocking

[nikolai_42]

I am on a couple other boards and on one of them (www.carm.org) I found a post in which someone was asking if divorce had a negative effect on Modern society (specifically American in the context of the question). I was really quite surprised when everyone on the thread defended it in one context or another (all the way from total defense to one in a few different situations other than adultery). I guess I had more confidence in the church. But when the church divorce rate is no better than the world's, maybe I'm looking at the world through rose coloured glasses. To me, divorce is a prime indicator of a serious rift in the fabric that holds society together - trust. I said this:

Loyalty is a dirty word these days. Commitment is even worse. If you don't feel like you are in love, then do something to make yourself feel better. Drink. Smoke. Do drugs. Have an affair. Find some cult to join. But whatever you do, don't ever be led by anything other than feelings. Heaven forbid one should actually have the wisdom and self-sacrificial spirit to do for another simply to honor a vow and to show that love is a choice, not a feeling.

It's just as prevalent in the church world today. People change churches like they change underwear (and some leave altogether) and for poor reasons.

Is it any wonder that no one has any trust in another's WORD? That we need complex cryptography to ensure our credit card transactions are private to keep others from seeing them? That we need to develop systems of checks to make sure we don't have our identities stolen? The fabric of civilized society is built around trust. And when that fabric is torn, civilization grinds to a halt. And so when the basic unit of civilization (the family) is devalued to be defined merely by a biological urge (and not a commitment) then why should there be any trust in those who are supposed to form its critical parts?

I then started my own thread and said this:

I just posted on a thread concerning divorce and its effects and the general consensus seemed to be that divorce was a necessary evil for things like abuse etc...

Maybe mine was a more philosophical point (more fundamental as opposed to specific) but what does divorce do for trust? Is trust not what keeps civilized society together? And while abuse is horrific, if we were to punish abusers (I speak mainly of sexual abuse) as they should be punished (and were in earlier days of Mod. Western Civilization), then these crimes would be aberrances that would appear very infrequently. But in a permissive, self-governed (in the most selfish meaning) society, there is no imperative for sacrifice. There is no 'reason' to give without expecting in return (except that one is keeping civilization viable and strengthening things such as the value of one's word or promise).

Abuse may violate a trust, but adding another violation of trust (weakening the bonds that hold marriages together) does nothing to help the situation. It merely drives the abused and abuser deeper in to their own worlds and weakens the fabric of civilized society.

Or maybe I'm too old-fashioned.

I thought I'd bring them here for comment. I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but I wanted a real honest response from a variety of places.

Only a couple weeks ago, I was shocked and dismayed to find a site like this one:

www.divorcehope.com

What crazed thinking is this? Or do many of you agree with such sites and the more liberal side of allowing divorce?

You can find the full discussion on the Topical board at CARM. And I will post the link here if anyone is interested.

This is really depressing, but I think (to me) it is at least as shocking.

 

[Arikay]

One thing to think about is that the Liberal view may be the better one. As the last data I saw about divorce rates put the bible belt as having one of the highest divorce rates in the US, beat only by the famous Sin city itself. I would say the bible belt is probably one of the lesser liberal areas in the US.

 

[nikolai_42]

One thing to think about is that the Liberal view may be the better one.

I'm unclear what you are saying here. Are you saying that the statistically more accurate representation of divorce in the church is the more liberal one (i.e. more rather than fewer) or that divorce is okay?

 

[Arikay]

Im saying that the divorce rate is lower in more liberal area. So it seems that even though liberal areas support divorce more than conservative areas, they appear to use it less.

 

[tcampen]

Nobody thinks divorce is a good thing, but sometimes it is necessary or unavoidable. I believe married couples do make a lifelong commitment to eachother, and should stick with it. But relationships are complicated, and it's not always about selfishness when one finds they can't be with the other person anymore.

People ought to be far more careful about who they marry, how old they are when they marry, the reasons they marry, etc. Most marriages that end in divorce had the writing on the wall before any vows were even exchanged.

As for divorce rates, The Barnas Group (a Christian research firm) found that around 28% of evangelical christians had been divorced, as compared to around 22% of athiests. Statistically speaking, correlating "liberal" with more divorces does appear unfounded. Even if the conservative position is to oppose divorce at all but the most extreme cases, it does not appear being conservative makes one more likey to live by those words.

 

[wonder111]

all I can say is for single people, don't get married too soon in a relationship, or if you have very strong "feelings" for someone. That doesn't necessarily mean it would make for a good marriage. I tend to be overly-picky (at least that's what I hear) but I would rather stay single and happy my whole life, than get into a disasterous marriage.

For people who are divorced? I can only say that's between them and God.

 

[Arikay]

One thing to note is that for atheists or other non christian people, marriage might not be as big of a deal, and thus many may choose just to live together instead of getting married, So, if they split up before the state recognized them as being married, it wouldn't go down as a divorce in the statistics.

From what I have read, one theory why divorce is higher in more conservative christian areas is because more importance is put on marriage. So people feel pressured into getting married even when they shouldn't be, and it doesn't work out, so they get a divorce, raising the divorce rate compared to other places.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Im saying that the divorce rate is lower in more liberal area. So it seems that even though liberal areas support divorce more than conservative areas, they appear to use it less.

The higher divorce rate in the Bible belt is partly realated to the higher marriage rate. Research is being conducted to try to find the correct correlation, but anecdotal evidence has led many to hypothesize that brief, young, childless marriages make up a larger proportion of divorces in the Bible belt. More young couples get married there who would just live together anywhere else. When these relationships end, they add to the divorce rate, whereas if they had not married, there would have been no divorce.

[edit: I guess Arikay already said that. ]

 

[Crazy Liz]

Nobody thinks divorce is a good thing, but sometimes it is necessary or unavoidable. I believe married couples do make a lifelong commitment to eachother, and should stick with it. But relationships are complicated, and it's not always about selfishness when one finds they can't be with the other person anymore.

People ought to be far more careful about who they marry, how old they are when they marry, the reasons they marry, etc. Most marriages that end in divorce had the writing on the wall before any vows were even exchanged.

You are putting all the responsibility on the couple here. I think that is actually part of the problem, rather than the answer. Lack of social support for marriage is, I think a major contributing factor. Americans today live far from their extended families, don't know their neighbors, go to churches with people who never see them anywhere else, so they don't really know them, etc., etc. People marry without getting to know their spouse's extended family, coworkers, etc., and having their families and friends get to know each other. Everyone knows, "Love is blind," but the people in our extended familie, churches, and friendship networks can often see red flags the couple can't. Yet we respect each other's privacy too much to "interfere."

According to this mindset, if your marriage doesn't make it, it's your failure and no one else's. If other people's divorces and marriage problems don't affect us, why all the hand-wringing about the divorce rate?

What could we do differently? ISTM, we could just start with some small steps. Three couples in my neighborhood have reached an implicit agreement over the past year just to care about each other's marriages. Even this small step has probably helped prevent at least one divorce.

Don't look for someone to blame without being willing to take some responsibility.