divorce and remarriage.

[com7fy8]

Every time we sin . . . arguing, complaining (Philippians 2:14-16), being unforgiving (Mark 11:25, Ephesians 4:32) . . . we are having an affair with Satan; does Jesus our Groom divorce us?

"'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.'" (Mark 11:25)

When Jesus said the "except for" thing (Matthew 5:32, Matthew 19:9), that was while the Law of Moses was in effect. And in the Law of Moses there is a rule that - - if a man marries a woman who has claimed to be a virgin, but then he finds out she's not a virgin . . . she is stoned (Deuteronomy 22:13-21). He is not obligated to stay married to her because of the immorality that took place before they were married.

This could be not a case of adultery, but of "immorality" which some Bible translations use where Jesus says you can divorce someone because of "immorality" which could be the fornication she committed before she fooled him into thinking she was a virgin. "And the offense is that she lied to God's people, not only that she committed fornication."

Jesus does not say "because of adultery".

It is important to understand whichever is right, because if you go into a marriage ready to be unforgiving about adultery, you can be weak enough in your readiness for unforgiveness so you can break down in your marriage, "even without adultery". But if God does mean to stay together, "no matter what", then we are encouraged and confronted to be in love strong enough to stay together, no matter what.

 

[Bluelion]

Every time we sin . . . arguing, complaining (Philippians 2:14-16), being unforgiving (Mark 11:25, Ephesians 4:32) . . . we are having an affair with Satan; does Jesus our Groom divorce us?

"'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.'" (Mark 11:25)

When Jesus said the "except for" thing (Matthew 5:32, Matthew 19:9), that was while the Law of Moses was in effect. And in the Law of Moses there is a rule that - - if a man marries a woman who has claimed to be a virgin, but then he finds out she's not a virgin . . . she is stoned (Deuteronomy 22:13-21). He is not obligated to stay married to her because of the immorality that took place before they were married.

This could be not a case of adultery, but of "immorality" which some Bible translations use where Jesus says you can divorce someone because of "immorality" which could be the fornication she committed before she fooled him into thinking she was a virgin. "And the offense is that she lied to God's people, not only that she committed fornication."

Jesus does not say "because of adultery".

It is important to understand whichever is right, because if you go into a marriage ready to be unforgiving about adultery, you can be weak enough in your readiness for unforgiveness so you can break down in your marriage, "even without adultery". But if God does mean to stay together, "no matter what", then we are encouraged and confronted to be in love strong enough to stay together, no matter what.

Jesus does not divorce the church because it was not as God intended but He certainly would have a right if it were a traditional marriage. Fact is its an agreement He made with us.

Point 2 the law is still in effect, Jesus said do not think I have come to abolish the law I have not but to fulfill it. Stoning and killing was never part of the law Jesus did neither. Jesus pays the debt of those who ask so the penalty is gone. Which was death.

# yes Jesus did give a way out Just as Moses did because He new the hearts of men. He said except by adultery. Now if you would follow God truly there is no divorce because it was not as God intended. But don't make up laws and call them God's, God gave a way out and for good reason. So some weak in faith might take it, others more mature in Jesus may do as God planed and stay in the marriage. Those are God's judgement on the matter.

 

[com7fy8]

Stoning and killing was never part of the law

What about Deuteronomy 22:13-21? This is in Deuteronomy. To my knowledge, Deuteronomy is part of the Law of Moses. But I do not believe Jesus wants this to be practiced, now. But it does appear it is part of the law.

Stoning and killing was never part of the law

Where does He say "except for adultery"? He says, "except for immorality", and I have offered an example of how immorality would be grounds not to stay married > Deuteronomy 22:13-21. So, this is in the Bible.

But don't make up laws and call them God's,

But Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is in the Bible. And I am considering that this could fit with what Jesus means when He says "except for immorality" . . . since it would be not adultery if she had sex before marriage. But the main crime is to lie in order to fool someone into marrying her.

I do not mean that someone with past immorality can't get married, but lying about it in order to fool someone is betraying trust; I don't think you can love someone and betray that person's trust. If the person's past is gone because the person trusts in Jesus, then the person has a new beginning.

 

[Bluelion]

What about Deuteronomy 22:13-21? This is in Deuteronomy. To my knowledge, Deuteronomy is part of the Law of Moses. But I do not believe Jesus wants this to be practiced, now. But it does appear it is part of the law.Where does He say "except for adultery"? He says, "except for immorality", and I have offered an example of how immorality would be grounds not to stay married > Deuteronomy 22:13-21. So, this is in the Bible. But Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is in the Bible. And I am considering that this could fit with what Jesus means when He says "except for immorality" . . . since it would be not adultery if she had sex before marriage. But the main crime is to lie in order to fool someone into marrying her.

I do not mean that someone with past immorality can't get married, but lying about it in order to fool someone is betraying trust; I don't think you can love someone and betray that person's trust. If the person's past is gone because the person trusts in Jesus, then the person has a new beginning.

Mat 19 NLT
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended.9 And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery—unless his wife has been unfaithful.”

Mat 19 KJV
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.



Oh I know it says a person shall be stoned and all that, but that is not what God meant. You do not understand the Law. A Teacher of The law when asked by Jesus what was the heart of the Law said love God and love your neighbor. Jesus explained the Law that people did not understand. God wanted them to have mercy. tooth for a tooth and eye for an eye meant do on to others as you would have done to you. Jesus obeyed every part of the Law and fulfilled it yet He did not hurt one person in doing it, So clearly the law is not to kill as you say or else Jesus would not have been keeping the Law by forgiving people and showing mercy.

That is the problem now days everyone thinks they can preach God's word with no training and you get people who do not understand it to start with, so all Christians are held under one person misunderstanding.

What are you arguing? that Jesus did not say divorce was permitted in adultery well it says unfaithful same thing right there.

The law still applies.

Mat 5
17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. 19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

20 “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

 

[com7fy8]

—unless his wife has been unfaithful.”

except it be for fornication,

The original Greek word for fornication is not what is usually used for adultery. So, saying "unfaithful" is possibly an interpretation. And fornication certainly is not adultery. So, it could mean that divorce is acceptable in the case of fornication which took place before the marriage started, meaning if the wife on purpose betrayed her man by lying, before they got married, about being a virgin. And such betraying, not the sexual action, calls for the death penalty, in Deuteronomy 22:13-21.

Also, in the early scriptures, God did use execution for people who sinned. There are various examples of how God killed people, Himself, and also ordered the Jews to execute people. The scriptures say this.

The meaning of this is to show how "the wages of sin is death", so we see our need for our Savior dying in our place so we are not executed for our sinning. But the fulfillment is that we love, instead. We now specialize in having mercy.

So, it is clear that the early scriptures say God had death penalty punishments and consequences . . . including for complaining > Numbers 21:1-6. But now the application of the execution laws and consequences is that we depend on Jesus and His death so we are not executed.

Also, in the book of Acts we have cases in which people were killed for sinning > such as Ananias and Sophia and Herod. Acts 5:1-11, Acts 12:20-23. And because Corinthians abused the Lord's Supper, "many sleep", Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:30. So, yes, even though we now are in the time of mercy and grace, still ones do get judged and killed, including also if they do evil > Romans 13:3-4 < ones in secular authority have power to execute.

Hebrews 2:14-15 says "fear of death" is slavery to Satan; so I consider that certain people fear the death penalty because they fear death. And ones do not want to believe that God judges and will judge.

 

[Bluelion]

The original Greek word for fornication is not what is usually used for adultery. So, saying "unfaithful" is possibly an interpretation. And fornication certainly is not adultery. So, it could mean that divorce is acceptable in the case of fornication which took place before the marriage started, meaning if the wife on purpose betrayed her man by lying, before they got married, about being a virgin. And such betraying, not the sexual action, calls for the death penalty, in Deuteronomy 22:13-21.

Also, in the early scriptures, God did use execution for people who sinned. There are various examples of how God killed people, Himself, and also ordered the Jews to execute people. The scriptures say this.

The meaning of this is to show how "the wages of sin is death", so we see our need for our Savior dying in our place so we are not executed for our sinning. But the fulfillment is that we love, instead. We now specialize in having mercy.

So, it is clear that the early scriptures say God had death penalty punishments and consequences . . . including for complaining > Numbers 21:1-6. But now the application of the execution laws and consequences is that we depend on Jesus and His death so we are not executed.

Also, in the book of Acts we have cases in which people were killed for sinning > such as Ananias and Sophia and Herod. Acts 5:1-11, Acts 12:20-23. And because Corinthians abused the Lord's Supper, "many sleep", Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:30. So, yes, even though we now are in the time of mercy and grace, still ones do get judged and killed, including also if they do evil > Romans 13:3-4 < ones in secular authority have power to execute.

Hebrews 2:14-15 says "fear of death" is slavery to Satan; so I consider that certain people fear the death penalty because they fear death. And ones do not want to believe that God judges and will judge.

Your arguing with God He said it.

Mat 5
17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. 19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

20 “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

You misunderstand the Law, fact Jesus fulfilled the law and did not hurt one person, how is that possible if the law is to kill? It also says to offer up animals as blood sacrifice but it also says in the New testament animals blood could never make a person right with God. The reason they did that was that was how you worshiped God's in those days and how Israel wanted to worship God so God gave it to them. Whatever i don't care you don't want to listen you want to be right.

Here is the Greek word you question, as you can see it does mean adultery.

Word: porneia

Pronounce: por-ni'-ah

Strongs Number: G4202

Orig: from 4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry:--sexual immorality. G4203

Use: TDNT-6:579,918 Noun Feminine

Heb Strong: H2183 H8457

1. 
   1) illicit(unlawful) sexual intercourse
   1a) adultery, sexual immorality, homosexuality, intercourse with animals etc.
   1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
   1c) sexual intercourse with an unlawfully divorced man or woman; Mr 10:11,12
   2) metaph. the worship of idols
   2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
   2b) any form of idolatry

You know God puts teachers on earth to be a guide. Some people think they know just as much as those in that are called to do so, just by picking up there Bible. If everyone could understand God just by reading there would be no need for any one in ministry. The Bible is written so God has to lead a person through it and guide them. The person can never understand God by reading the Bible on their own in there own study. Some people just want to be right and don't want to learn. So have fun I got no time for that.

 

[Bluelion]

You know what it is like. It is like people showing up for a doctors lecture maybe they go every week to a lecture then they go out and find some one to operate on. Yeah like that is going to go well. They start debating with doctors about what is the right way to operate maybe they even look things up on the internet. You think any doctor in their right mind would stand there, when he has the education and is trying to show a person, and listen to them tell them how to operate. You want to know what is wrong with the world church it is that right there. God says the fool laughs at wisdom. I know God always speaks truth but it always gets me at how right He is.

 

[com7fy8]

Here is the Greek word you question, as you can see it does mean adultery.

Word: porneia

But adultery is not the only possible meaning for porneia. And I understand that Jesus uses a more specific word, when He is specifying adultery . . . doesn't He?

So, you just do not agree with me. I have not agreed with how you choose to understand things. This does not automatically mean I disagree with "God". I have offered my explanation.