Divorce Agreement

[Thekla]

Those who are homeless and such are those that are that way by choice. Those who chose not to work are be productive but think others should support them.

A large percentage of the homeless are mentally ill. Psychosis is not a "choice".
Some of the homeless do work - but their low income does not cover housing.

Many truly desire to work - unemployment is not always a "choice".
Or, it is a "choice" for US corporations who benefit through offshoring and outsourcing jobs to other countries.

Those who are truly poor are not mentioned by name because they were not included.

I don't understand.

The Bible does say that if a man does not work he should not eat. It also says that we should give to the poor.

The Bible says if he does not desire/will/thelo to work.
It says nothing about those who cannot work.

There is a large difference between those who are truly down but yet are doing all they know to do and those who are "homeless" and others who take advantage of others giving in order that they do not have to work.

There is a great deal of "taking advantage of" - like the corporations and banks who were given massive zero interest loans to bail out their failures and "repay" TARP.
Wall Street Aristocracy Got $1.2 Trillion in Secret Loans - Bloomberg
Re: the mortgage crisis, the Fed essentially assumed all the on-the-books bad loans by pulling them into Freddie and Fannie.

So the US people are paying to bail out the banks and mortgage lenders - and the banks and mortgage lenders (who often don't have the proper paperwork on the home title - see the MERS scandal) are putting the squeeze on homeowners who are suffering from the abysmal economy the banks and corporations caused.
Remember Christ's parable about the servant who was forgiven his debt and then put the squeeze on his debtors ?

The biggest welfare deadbeats in this country are corporations and banks.
And the politicians who deregulate to allow more malfeasance, and who do not require transparency in these TBTF banks and corporations often go on to work in the same sector. (Phil Graham shot down attempts to regulate CDSs, the instrument that brought down our economy in 2008 - go research where he works now.)

 

[New_Wineskin]

So the US people are paying to bail out the banks and mortgage lenders

Not the US people - the rich . The US people are in debt paying for their tvs and ipods they cannot afford . They are too busy with their Nazi attitudes towards the rich and voting people in to have the rich pay for far more than they get . 5% of the taxpayers pay 40% of the taxes . Obama wants that 5% to pay for 50% .

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Some of us may need to get used to the idea of always having to tend to the poor.

Mat 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

Forgive me...

 

[bbbbbbb]

Some of us may need to get used to the idea of always having to tend to the poor.



Forgive me...

Others of us may need to get used to the idea of being poor. Life holds all sorts of surprises, some of which are hard to bear.

 

[Thekla]

Not the US people - the rich . The US people are in debt paying for their tvs and ipods they cannot afford . They are too busy with their Nazi attitudes towards the rich and voting people in to have the rich pay for far more than they get . 5% of the taxpayers pay 40% of the taxes . Obama wants that 5% to pay for 50% .

Most bankruptcies in the US are due to medical debt.

Most people who work pay payroll taxes. Only the lowest 16% of earners pay no tax.

Most bankruptcies in the US (before the economic crisis) were the result of medical debt.

Please do more research into the economic downturn, which has eroded incomes even further. Note that QE (1&2) has eroded the value of the dollar, and was done for the benefit of large corporations, financial institutions, and banks.

As before, the "free loans" to these institutions are in real terms loans at a negative interest rate - the money was used in commodity speculation and the Carry Trade (neither of which strengthen the already battered US economy).

Why rail over TVs and ignore the massive Wall Street bonuses you paid for ?

 

[Thekla]

Not the US people - the rich . The US people are in debt paying for their tvs and ipods they cannot afford . They are too busy with their Nazi attitudes towards the rich and voting people in to have the rich pay for far more than they get . 5% of the taxpayers pay 40% of the taxes . Obama wants that 5% to pay for 50% .

And inflation as well as eroding dollar value acts like a tax.

But as several countries including Russia (a major oil producer) and China (a major oil market) are dropping the dollar as the reserve currency (reserve currency for oil trades) consider that we will likely incur a further "tax" as eroding dollar value.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Others of us may need to get used to the idea of being poor. Life holds all sorts of surprises, some of which are hard to bear.

I'm poor. I don't mind too much. In the 90's, I was doing well. We adjust.

Forgive me...

 

[Optimax]

The truly poor in finances will always receive help.

The truly poor in thinking will receive no help.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'm poor. I don't mind too much. In the 90's, I was doing well. We adjust.

Forgive me...

Yes, I agree. I have learned, like Paul, to be content in whatever circumstances the Lord has for me.

 

[Optimax]

Yes, I agree. I have learned, like Paul, to be content in whatever circumstances the Lord has for me.

Amen!

He did instruct us to be content when we were in lack.

However, he did not say that we had to stay there!

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Those who are homeless and such are those that are that way by choice. Those who chose not to work are be productive but think others should support them.

Those who are truly poor are not mentioned by name because they were not included.

Scripture doesn't distinguish between a "deserving poor" and an "undeserving poor". There is only the poor, and the Word of God is clear on this issue.

The Bible does say that if a man does not work he should not eat. It also says that we should give to the poor.

"Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living."

But why?

Because many in the Thessalonian church thought the Parousia was right around the corner, so they became idle, they stopped working, they chose to be idle and not contribute to the spiritual and practical needs of the community; and so St. Paul offers advice that is practical: That if someone chooses not to work, then he doesn't get to share in the food of the community.

So note that:

1) This isn't about people who are suffering unemployment, but people who are willfully not contributing to the needs of the Christian community, no doubt because they assumed the Parousia was right around the corner and so there was no need to work.

2) This is about members of the community, Christian brothers and sisters, not about the homeless and jobless in our society.

So, in Christ's name, I implore everyone STOP ABUSING THIS PASSAGE.

There is a large difference between those who are truly down but yet are doing all they know to do and those who are "homeless" and others who take advantage of others giving in order that they do not have to work.

However you don't get to make that judgment call. Give freely without asking questions, give abundantly and cheerfully. That is the will of God. That's what it means to be a Christian.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[katherine2001]

Amen!

He did instruct us to be content when we were in lack.

However, he did not say that we had to stay there!

With all due respect, these two statements are contradictory. If you are fighting to get out of the position that He has put you in, then you are not being content! The fact is, you hate where He has you right now, so you are fighting to get out of it! Also, most people who are homeless are not homeless by choice. Most of them either lost their jobs or they are there because of mental illness or addiction (and mental illness is not something that you have a choice about). People also fall into addiction, and wealth can most definitely be an addiction, and holding onto our money and not being willing to share it with others is an illness discussed in the Scriptures often (it's called greed). After all, it was what kept the rich young ruler from becoming a disciple of Christ and we are warned that you cannot serve two masters. And according to Christ Himself in the passage at the end of Matt 25, it will keep people out of the Kingdom because they refused to see Christ's image in the poor and the homeless. Instead of helping them, they looked down on them with disdain. After all, they were lazy bums who wouldn't work! I guess Jesus fit into that category too since He could have been doing carpentry work during His ministry to earn money so that they would have had food to eat and a place to stay during the night. Instead, Christ pointed out that He did not have a place to lay his head--in other words, He was homeless! Since He chose to be homeless by choosing to go out to preach to the people, He should have not be taken in for lodging or meals, correct? He wasn't being paid during His ministry--He was dependent on others.

Also, if we give mercy, then God gives us mercy (both the Lord's Prayer and the Beatitudes say this--God forgive us as we forgive those who trespass against us and we obtain mercy as we are merciful to others. If we want justice for others, then we are asking for justice for ourselves as well, because God will give us what we want for others. God, like any good parent, sometimes has to give us incentives to do the correct thing.

 

[BrotherBob]

We live in a "have it now, pay for it later" society. Long ago we got in trouble with credit. We went to the bible and decided our goal was to owe no man and try to work quietly. Now, we owe no man and only have our monthly expenses. The Lord has blessed us with a comfortable place to live and enough food. We are able to tithe each month to the needy. Our clothes are second hand, but clean and not worn. We survive adequately, because of the Lord, and even have enough to share. We live on less than $ 18,000 a year because we search the bible on how to live. May the Lord be praised!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have a feeling that if the poor and homeless are part of the liberal country, then that is where Christ will be. I don't think he had much sympathy for the wealthy--after all, He told the rich young ruler to sell all that he had and to give it to the poor. He also said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into the Kingdom.

Oh, and by the way, the Native Americans were here first--the European settlers were the illegal immigrants. So, you will have to press 2 to speak English. Option #1 will be to speak in the local Native American language of the area where a person is calling.

The NAs were probably more spiritual than those European immigrants

Reminds me of the movie "Thunderheart" and this comeback from Crow Horse to the FBI agent

from movie "Thunderheart"

CROW HORSE No. Not just a track. You gotta listen to the trees, man. To the leaves. To this sand, you FBI's kicked all up. You gotta listen to the earth.

I could almost swear this Indian prayer could have come from Ezekiel 37:9

Earth Prayers for The Great Spirit

"Oh, Great Spirit, whose voice I hear in the wind, Whose Breath gives life to all the world. Hear me; I need your strength and wisdom.
O Great Spirit of the North, who gives wings to the waters of the air and rolls the thick snowstorm before Thee,
O Great Spirit of the East, the land of the rising Sun, Who holds in Your right hand the years of our lives
O Great Spirit of the South, whose warm breath of compassion melts the ice that gathers round our hearts,
O Great Spirit of the West, the land of the setting Sun, with Your soaring mountains and free,

Ezekiel 37:9 And He is saying to me, "Prophesy! to the breath. Prophesy! son of 'Adam, and thou say to the breath, 'Thus He says my Lord YHWH: "From Four of Winds, come! the Breath, and breathe/blow in the ones slain, these and they shall live." '

 

[heymikey80]

Scripture doesn't distinguish between a "deserving poor" and an "undeserving poor". There is only the poor, and the Word of God is clear on this issue.

"Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living."

But why?

Because many in the Thessalonian church thought the Parousia was right around the corner, so they became idle, they stopped working, they chose to be idle and not contribute to the spiritual and practical needs of the community; and so St. Paul offers advice that is practical: That if someone chooses not to work, then he doesn't get to share in the food of the community.

So note that:

1) This isn't about people who are suffering unemployment, but people who are willfully not contributing to the needs of the Christian community, no doubt because they assumed the Parousia was right around the corner and so there was no need to work.

2) This is about members of the community, Christian brothers and sisters, not about the homeless and jobless in our society.

So, in Christ's name, I implore everyone STOP ABUSING THIS PASSAGE.

OK, let's stop abusing the passage: these people were instructed to avoiding burdening the church by their idleness. This isn't suffering unemployment, no: but it is remaining unemployed when there are even menial tasks available to keep from burdening the congregation.

That's even if the Parousia were tomorrow. IOW, even if idleness could be well-justified, Paul says, "split from them."

The passage sets priorities, and the primary priority is only providing a living to those who in all events can't make it another way.

Now, there are certainly people who can't find even the first job to perform and even begin to repay. But there are people who could find such jobs, but refuse them as being "beneath" them.

I've seen lots of variations and rationalizations. But we have to move people in the direction of a right system of working and support people who can do no more than they have. There are indeed plenty of people who aren't at the point of a right view of work. It's our job as redemptive people to say what we see. In many cases, especially right now, that situation is not subject to review and counsel. But in many other cases, now a constant refrain of this culture, the situations people are in are indeed subject to counseling people to find jobs that at least contribute something to their support. And even then, it may not be enough, and the church will be contributing something to support them as well.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Helping the poor whether we deem them to deserve it or not

is so the Father's grace to us .

Forgive me ..

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

We live in a "have it now, pay for it later" society. Long ago we got in trouble with credit. We went to the bible and decided our goal was to owe no man and try to work quietly. Now, we owe no man and only have our monthly expenses. The Lord has blessed us with a comfortable place to live and enough food. We are able to tithe each month to the needy. Our clothes are second hand, but clean and not worn. We survive adequately, because of the Lord, and even have enough to share. We live on less than $ 18,000 a year because we search the bible on how to live. May the Lord be praised!

Wisdom. Let us attend!

Forgive me...

 

[brinny]

DIVORCE AGREEMENT



Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al:
We have stuck together since the late 1950's for the sake of the kids, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course.

Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.

Here is a model separation agreement:
--Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our
respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.

--We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them.
--You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.

--Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops,
the NRA and the military.
--We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry

and you can go with wind, solar and bio diesel.
--You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of
them.

--We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street.
--You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless, home boys, hippies, druggies and illegal aliens.
--We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks.
--We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood .

--You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us.
--You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security.

--We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.
--You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness and Shirley McLane. You can also have the U.N. but we will no longer be paying the bill.

--We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Volt and Leaf you can find.
--You can give everyone health care if you can find any practicing doctors.
--We'll continue to believe health care is a luxury and not a right.
--We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" and "The National Anthem."
--I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya" or "We Are the World".

--We'll practice trickle down economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot.

--Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our flag.

Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like-minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you answer which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.

P.S. Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin
Sheen, Barbara Streisand, & Jane Fonda with you.

P.S.S. And you won't have to press 1 for English when you call our country.

A divorce? LOL! That's hilarious

 

[Thekla]

Where there is immoral behavior, why does the text of the OP only note the need to be carved away from the immoral behavior of those of low or no income ?

Is immoral action somehow not immoral if one uses it to gain wealth ?

Paul called greed idolatry.

Why tacitly idolize those who commit idolatry ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

A divorce? LOL! That's hilarious

Seems I recall somewhere where YHVH gave a certificate of divorce to Israel

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

Young) Jeremiah 3:8 And I see when (for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery) I have sent her away, and I give the bill of her divorce unto her,
that treacherous Judah her sister hath not feared, and goeth and committeth fornication--she also.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number H3748 matches the Hebrew כְּרִיתוּת (kĕriythuwth), which occurs 4 times in 4 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV

3748 kriythuwth ker-ee-thooth' from 3772; a cutting (of the matrimonial bond), i.e. divorce:--divorce(-ment).

http://www.christianforums.com/t7285776/
Does God forgive adultery and marriage to that