Division misunderstood?

[Nadiine]

I'm a little confused at why division is being viewed as such a negative and bad principle by people who claim Christ?

Since it's directly taught by Jesus and scattered thruout the Bible, why is this seen in such negative light?

*I wanted to start this thread due to reading this statement elsewhere on CF which makes some sense, however is EVERYONE included when their Christian dogma is anti scriptural/heretical or their worldviews promoting sin/contradicting God's principles?
Do we work to unite just becuz we think uniting is 'loving' or of God despite scripture teaching on the matter of division?*

If people would concentrate on the common ground rather than the dogma's that separate, we could change the world.
If we could set aside our differences and work together as the body of Christ should, not only could we change the world, but nothing would be beyond our grasp.

 

[GQ Chris]

Division is Good. Lukewarm is frowned upon by Jesus.

This is why I practice Muay Thai and Boxing (just in case).

 

[Zecryphon]

I'm a little confused at why division is being viewed as such a negative and bad principle by people who claim Christ?

Since it's directly taught by Jesus and scattered thruout the Bible, why is this seen in such negative light?

*I wanted to start this thread due to reading this statement elsewhere on CF which makes some sense, however is EVERYONE included when their Christian dogma is anti scriptural/heretical or their worldviews promoting sin/contradicting God's principles?
Do we work to unite just becuz we think uniting is 'loving' or of God despite scripture teaching on the matter of division?*

This quote is promoting ecumenicalism and I don't believe that is truly a Christian pursuit. Joining together with false teachers, to effect or bring about some sort of change is not the answer. By doing so, Christians will be approving of what the false teachers teach by being joined with them in a common vision. Plus that post smacks of the social gospel that is promoted by people like Brian McLaren of the Emergent movement and Jim Wallis of Sojourners. Making the world a better place is not the message of the gospel. The message of the gospel is Christ by the grace of God, crucified, died, buried and resurrected to pay the penalty our sin demands according to God's law. Doing good for others is a command of Christ that's true, but that can not be elevated above repentance and faith. Division is necessary because it protects the church from false teachers and other dangers. People who just want to have a group hug or a love fest will always have a problem with division and will ironically divide from those who do not share their vision.

 

[Nadiine]

wow, that's a really thought provoking reply, thanks for that

 

[A New Dawn]

I'm a little confused at why division is being viewed as such a negative and bad principle by people who claim Christ?

Since it's directly taught by Jesus and scattered thruout the Bible, why is this seen in such negative light?

*I wanted to start this thread due to reading this statement elsewhere on CF which makes some sense, however is EVERYONE included when their Christian dogma is anti scriptural/heretical or their worldviews promoting sin/contradicting God's principles?
Do we work to unite just becuz we think uniting is 'loving' or of God despite scripture teaching on the matter of division?*

Unity and peace come only through Jesus Christ. Those who think they can do it themselves are trying to take Christ out of the picture. It is humanism, pure and simple. The scriptures are clear on who belongs to the body of Christ, and uniting with those who are not part of the body brings about what ends? From looking at what has been achieved so far, it brings about the lessening God (from all angles).

 

[Nadiine]

Division is Good. Lukewarm is frowned upon by Jesus.

This is why I practice Muay Thai and Boxing (just in case).

Another interesting aspect - is refusal to divide from heretics and false teachers "lukewarm"?
hmmmmmmmm

2 good thoughts I hadn't brought into my analysis.


ps. I've never heard of Muay Thai?
in the Matrix, one of the thinks Neo learned was "drunken boxing" - I always wondered about that lol
My fav. is still Aikeedo - Steven Seagal

 

[Nadiine]

Unity and peace come only through Jesus Christ. Those who think they can do it themselves are trying to take Christ out of the picture. It is humanism, pure and simple. The scriptures are clear on who belongs to the body of Christ, and uniting with those who are not part of the body brings about what ends? From looking at what has been achieved so far, it brings about the lessening God (from all angles).

You guys have given me 3 other angels I hadn't focused on in this -
I focus on the harm angle - who it can harm and why.

I appreciate these views to help me see more aspects than I did before.

thanks you guys

 

[Simon_Templar]

I'm a little confused at why division is being viewed as such a negative and bad principle by people who claim Christ?

Since it's directly taught by Jesus and scattered thruout the Bible, why is this seen in such negative light?

*I wanted to start this thread due to reading this statement elsewhere on CF which makes some sense, however is EVERYONE included when their Christian dogma is anti scriptural/heretical or their worldviews promoting sin/contradicting God's principles?
Do we work to unite just becuz we think uniting is 'loving' or of God despite scripture teaching on the matter of division?*

I suppose it depends on what you mean by division when you say "division" my first inclination is generally to think of division between Christians (Baptists don't like Catholics and visa versa, evangelicals don't like liturgical churches etc etc)

If you mean between traditional/conservative Christians and liberals, or pseudo Christians then I don't have a problem with it.

However, among true believers, division is very bad in my opinion. It goes directly against what Jesus himself wanted for his Church, and in 1st Corinthians it is indicated as one of the reasons why God was displeased and was judging the Corinthians.

 

[CADude12]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by division when you say "division" my first inclination is generally to think of division between Christians (Baptists don't like Catholics and visa versa, evangelicals don't like liturgical churches etc etc)

If you mean between traditional/conservative Christians and liberals, or pseudo Christians then I don't have a problem with it.

However, among true believers, division is very bad in my opinion. It goes directly against what Jesus himself wanted for his Church, and in 1st Corinthians it is indicated as one of the reasons why God was displeased and was judging the Corinthians.

I agree - Exactly so. The false gospel(s) of the liberal and pseudo-Christians need to be rejected out of hand.

 

[desmalia]

This quote is promoting ecumenicalism and I don't believe that is truly a Christian pursuit. Joining together with false teachers, to effect or bring about some sort of change is not the answer. By doing so, Christians will be approving of what the false teachers teach by being joined with them in a common vision. Plus that post smacks of the social gospel that is promoted by people like Brian McLaren of the Emergent movement and Jim Wallis of Sojourners. Making the world a better place is not the message of the gospel. The message of the gospel is Christ by the grace of God, crucified, died, buried and resurrected to pay the penalty our sin demands according to God's law. Doing good for others is a command of Christ that's true, but that can not be elevated above repentance and faith. Division is necessary because it protects the church from false teachers and other dangers. People who just want to have a group hug or a love fest will always have a problem with division and will ironically divide from those who do not share their vision.

Great post, Zec. Division among the body can be bad. But there are many kinds of division that can be good too.

A
in the Matrix, one of the thinks Neo learned was "drunken boxing" - I always wondered about that lol

Wha? I've seen Matrix many times but don't remember drunken boxing... or was that in the second or third movie (cuz they were crappy so I only saw those once)?

 

[NorrinRadd]

...
Wha? I've seen Matrix many times but don't remember drunken boxing... or was that in the second or third movie (cuz they were crappy so I only saw those once)?

IIRC, it was a caption on one of the screens during Neo's 10-hour jacked-in training session. I don't think it was a spoken line.

 

[desmalia]

IIRC, it was a caption on one of the screens during Neo's 10-hour jacked-in training session. I don't think it was a spoken line.

Ahhh, wow talk about attention to detail. Sounds like you've seen it more than I have!

 

[MrJim]

ps. I've never heard of Muay Thai?
in the Matrix, one of the thinks Neo learned was "drunken boxing" - I always wondered about that lol
My fav. is still Aikeedo - Steven Seagal

Muay Thai is a very brutal style of kickboxing
Drunken Boxing is a Kung Fu style~really neat to see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqeyTHtS5RU

 

[Nadiine]

IIRC, it was a caption on one of the screens during Neo's 10-hour jacked-in training session. I don't think it was a spoken line.

yes exactly.
It was listed on the computer screen of what Neo was learning in his dentist chair. lol

 

[Nadiine]

Great post, Zec. Division among the body can be bad. But there are many kinds of division that can be good too.

I always wonder why Jesus used the analogy of sheep and wolves -
I doubt Jesus was intending to teach us sheep to wander into the wolves dens to crack a beer & hang out for obvious reasons

me: in the Matrix, one of the thinks Neo learned was "drunken boxing" - I always wondered about that lol

Des: Wha? I've seen Matrix many times but don't remember drunken boxing... or was that in the second or third movie (cuz they were crappy so I only saw those once)?

I just love when I see my typo's quoted.

:o lol

 

[NorrinRadd]

Ahhh, wow talk about attention to detail. Sounds like you've seen it more than I have!

I've seen it quite a few times, but that tidbit stuck the very first time.

Best I can explain it is, "It's like my brain has a mind of its own." ("Cody" on Step by Step)

 

[Blank123]

I'm a little confused at why division is being viewed as such a negative and bad principle by people who claim Christ?

Since it's directly taught by Jesus and scattered thruout the Bible, why is this seen in such negative light?

*I wanted to start this thread due to reading this statement elsewhere on CF which makes some sense, however is EVERYONE included when their Christian dogma is anti scriptural/heretical or their worldviews promoting sin/contradicting God's principles?
Do we work to unite just becuz we think uniting is 'loving' or of God despite scripture teaching on the matter of division?*

its because division is confrontational and causes conflict and people don't like that. In my last church even those who knew heresy was being pushed by the leadership they didn't want to take a stand because they didn't want to be seen as divisive towards their friends or family who accepted what they were given as truth. Thankfully many of them have learned over time that you can't unite with people who have rejected truth and have now left

the weird thing i've noticed though is that most people who push unity over doctrine are probably the most divisive people i've ever come across The stance usually is "if you're not with us then you're against us and you are not welcome here" and then do everything they can to drive you away because you're not considered truly Christian if you believe doctrine is of any real importance.

that being said we gotta know how to pick our battles. I knew a family that decided it was time to leave their church and local fellowship over the fact that the pastor switched from the KJV to NKJV. Thats not a huge thing to divide over IMHO (crosses fingers in hopes that she just didn't touch off a KJVO debate ). perverting the gospel of Christ is something to stand against and if division happens, so be it. because really its the saving gospel which unites us all and if thats not there then... what is there to unite us?

 

[Nadiine]

its because division is confrontational and causes conflict and people don't like that. In my last church even those who knew heresy was being pushed by the leadership they didn't want to take a stand because they didn't want to be seen as divisive towards their friends or family who accepted what they were given as truth. Thankfully many of them have learned over time that you can't unite with people who have rejected truth and have now left

the weird thing i've noticed though is that most people who push unity over doctrine are probably the most divisive people i've ever come across The stance usually is "if you're not with us then you're against us and you are not welcome here" and then do everything they can to drive you away because you're not considered truly Christian if you believe doctrine is of any real importance.

that being said we gotta know how to pick our battles. I knew a family that decided it was time to leave their church and local fellowship over the fact that the pastor switched from the KJV to NKJV. Thats not a huge thing to divide over IMHO (crosses fingers in hopes that she just didn't touch off a KJVO debate ). perverting the gospel of Christ is something to stand against and if division happens, so be it. because really its the saving gospel which unites us all and if thats not there then... what is there to unite us?

I totally agree with you on this one

That's where I take issue with other Christians - dividing over things we should be overlooking that aren't serious offenses or differences.

I truly believe that the types of Christians who divide over minor stuff that doesn't involve false teaching/heresies or leadership setting bad policy or moving into ungodly practices, etc. etc. are either immature in their faith, or divisive by nature (personally)?
I could be wrong on that.

 

[Blank123]

i think a lot of times it comes from a misunderstanding of what we're standing for and whats core to the gospel. NKJV vs KJV, for instance, isn't going to affect how the gospel comes across or how someone chooses to dress (i.e a women who chooses a knee length skirt over an ankle length one) or chooses to eat or drink, what day they choose to worship on, etc... do not affect the gospel but it may be tradition for a lot of people and their families or it may be something that another Christian they admire or respect believes in wholeheartedly and that belief/tradition just inevitably gets adopted and associated with the gospel and they just don't even notice they've made that association. but when it gets challenged they retreat the same as if the gospel itself had been trashed.

actually that particular family i mentioned is a good example of that. The mother of that family seems to have taken a shine to me for some reason so whenever we're together she pulls me aside to share her theological musings with me She's basically the spiritual leader in her family and a lot of what she believs is completely founded upon traditional conservative Christianity (i.e KJVO, women should not work, women need to submit without question in *every* area of life to her husband or father including checking with him before you spend a mere 5 bucks on a necklace or something, whathave you - don't ask me why she's the spiritual leader of her household - if you don't go to church you're a heathen, etc...) but ask her to back up her beliefs from Scripture and she can't. Its what she's grown up with so its gospel truth. BTW, just as a side note, her being the spiritual leader of her family has actually ended up in some pretty awful ways and i do worry for the emotional and spiritual wellbeing of her two sons especially so remember them in prayer please?

and yes some people do just like to argue and cause division for the sake of arguing and causing division. they're tough to deal with but i actually feel pretty bad for them because they're also usually pretty bitter in their personal lives and are the type for whom the old saying, 'misery loves company' was created. ultimately all you can do is let them go and pray and let God deal with them. One way or another they'll learn its better to live as a peacemaker than as God's vigilant who is constantly on the lookout for any little thing to take issue with.