Dispensations

[Iosias]

As far as Bible scriptures go, we need to keep things in context. Some people try to apply the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) to the sixth dispensation (grace). But, technically, the gospels are still under the dispensation of the law, the fifth dispensation. The gospels are a transition from the law to this dispensation and many times in the gospels we see Jesus making that transition.

 

[mlmum]

What does this mean?

 

[bleechers]

Sure, this is standard dispensationalism. The Book of Matthew in particular must be read in a Jewish/Law context. It does, however, contain many wonderful pictures of the coming dispensations following the resurrection.

He heals lepers by the laying on of hands (leprosy being a type of sin under the Law) and tells the lepers to go to the high priest - picturing his earthly ministry amongst the Jews... he then heals a gentile whom he never sees - picturing a mostly gentile church that he now heals from sin from far away in heaven... then He walks among the people healing all He sees - picturing His reign in the Millenium.

This is just a snipet of the dispensational pictures seen in Matthew...

I am tempted to list more for they are phenomenal and a wonderful encouragement!

AC Gaebelein stated that the Holy Spirit is not a recorder, but an editor. Jesus didn't heal people in different ways just willy-nilly. There was a purpose and a picture in all that He did. He deals with Jews very differently than He deals with Gentiles in the gospels, but gives a glimpse of the church which was yet to be born ("I will build my church").

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

ditto

 

[@@Paul@@]

What does this mean?

Well it means you only have to do this to be saved...

Eph 2:8-9 KJV
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

...instead of this.

Mat 19:16-21 KJV
(16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.​

 

[Ebb]

Well it means you only have to do this to be saved...

Eph 2:8-9 KJV

(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
​

...instead of this.

Mat 19:16-21 KJV

(16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
​

This is where the dispensationalist treads on dangerous ground, in teaching two ways of salvation, one by law, and one by grace.

Did the law ever save? Did grace make void the law? Read Romans.

 

[@@Paul@@]

This is where the dispensationalist treads on dangerous ground, in teaching two ways of salvation, one by law, and one by grace.

Did the law ever save? Did grace make void the law? Read Romans.

Salvation has aways been through faith........ That's ONE way.

 

[Ebb]

The only way of salvation:

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15

 

[@@Paul@@]

The only way of salvation:

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15

I'm a little confused as to what your getting at... OT saints looked forward to the Messiah to have faith in who was to come..... We look back having faith in what was done...

Please show me where the OT saints had to believe in the Death, Burial and Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ to have eternal life in Christ....

 

[bleechers]

The only way of salvation:

Ebb, I am as hardcore a dispensationalist as I am an ex-RC so let me say that I appreciate the concern. We do need to be careful in our wording of things.

I agree that from the Garden to today, salvation has always been by grace through faith. It always will be.

What is different is the outward manifestation of that faith. Obviously, Moses was not a "Christian" in same sense that we are "Christians". Abel's sacrifice pleased God because it pointed to Christ. I cannot (must not) try to please God in the same way Abel or Abraham or Noah or Moses did.

You don't offer a lamb. We don't pay tithes to the Temple. We don't take our children up on a mountain to attempt human sacrifice. All of these were evidence of faith, but they are wholly inappropriate for Christians in the Church age. Why? Because they would be evidence of lack of faith! Paul makes honoring the Sabbath a sign of no faith in Colossians (2:16), yet in the OT it was evidence of true faith.

The law has never, can never, nor will ever save anybody. Rest assured that dispensationalists hold to that.

As for Matt 19:17, we probably agree that Jesus was not teaching the law for salvation, but was revealing the deceitful heart of the young man (nobody has kept nor can keep the whole law). This is also why we teach that Matthew 25, for instance, can't possibly be for the Church...

 

[BT]

Yeah I've seen this kind of thing before. The strongest argument is "The Kingdom offerred", "The Kingdom rejected" that seems to fall under the dispensation of the Law or the final test of the dispensation of the law.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

leprosy being a type of sin under the Law)

hey bleechers,

can you give me the reference for this? Thanks.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

so do dispensationalists believe that Jews worship the same God as Christians? why or why not?

thanks, this is very interesting.

 

[bleechers]

can you give me the reference for this? Thanks.

http://www.learnthebible.org/L-053 - Leprosy.htm

 

[bleechers]

so do dispensationalists believe that Jews worship the same God as Christians?

ABSOLUTELY. (Note: the same God as Moses and the Prophets.)

Dispensationalist are the most vigorous supporters of Israel in Christendom.

We believe that God was, is, and ever shall be the same. He changes not! He has always saved by grace through faith, but he has dealt with man in different ways at different times to show (a) His righteousness and (b) man's wickedness.

As you know, Abraham came before the Law, yet he was declared righteous by faith. He did not function under the Mosaic Law, but under Covenant... Adam functioned under innocense, Noah under conscience then under government, Abraham under covenant, Moses and the Prophets under Law... all ended in great failure and man's rebellion.

In very short:

Adam failed and sinned willfully (breaking the ONE command he was given); conscience failed and God had to destroy the earth by flood; government failed and ended in a scattering at Babel; the Abrahamic covenant ended with Aaron building a golden calf; the Law ended with man rejecting the Son of God and His Kingdom and man crucifying the Lord of Glory... The church age will end in apostasy... Even the Millenium will end in Christ crushing a rebellion (proving that even perfect rule cannot rehabilitate mankind).

Now in all that failure, GOD NEVER FAILS! The promises He made are yea and amen! Therefore, the promises to Israel are still to Israel. I cannot void my covenant with God. It is sealed by Him. He can chastise. He can teach. But He will never reneg.

We, therefore, believe in a coming Kingdom in Israel.

There's a whole bunch more, but that (hopefully) will serve as an into.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

ok. i had covenant and disp. mixed up during that poll last week. i voted for covenant because i thought thats what it was (what you typed above, bleechers). i totally agree with that and have just been studing this recently, using some of the webpages that someone gave on that poll last week.

one more question: are "covenant" believers always Calvanists?

 

[BT]

ok. i had covenant and disp. mixed up during that poll last week. i voted for covenant because i thought thats what it was (what you typed above, bleechers). i totally agree with that and have just been studing this recently, using some of the webpages that someone gave on that poll last week.

one more question: are "covenant" believers always Calvanists?

No you couldn't say "always" but I would say "normally","usually", or "mainly". There are always those who don't fit into the exact mould... for example my good friend Street Preacher is a calvinist and a dispensationalist... (this is general knowlege I'm not gossiping )

 

[Ebb]

Dispensationalist are the most vigorous supporters of Israel in Christendom.

The best thing we can do for national Israel, just as the other nations, is to preach Jesus to them, and tell them that today is the day of salvation, and that Jesus is the only way of salvation. Those who hear the special calling of God will come and be part of the Church, spiritual Israel, the children of the promise.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Romans 9:6-8

 

[bleechers]

The best thing we can do for national Israel, just as the other nations, is to preach Jesus to them, and tell them that today is the day of salvation, and that Jesus is the only way of salvation.

This is also consistent with Dispensational theology.

 

[@@Paul@@]

The best thing we can do for national Israel, just as the other nations, is to preach Jesus to them, and tell them that today is the day of salvation, and that Jesus is the only way of salvation. Those who have the special calling of God will come and be part of the Church, spiritual Israel, the children of the promise.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Romans 9:6-8

Spiritual Israel!!! Romans 9!!