Dispensationalism - simply a means to an end

[readywriter]

'All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2Tim 3:16-17)

Hello there,

Dispensationalism, for me personally, is simply a means to an end. The end being to know Christ in all His fulness.

It provides the means whereby the word of God can be rightly divided: for although all Scripture is FOR us, nor all is ABOUT us.

It enables readers of Scripture to see what is applicable to them and what is not: and frees them from private interpretation or traditional practices which are no longer applicable.

'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2 Tim. 2:15)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[atpollard]

I liked the statement R.C. Sproul (not a dispensationalist) made at a conference in Orlando ... "If you believe that things changed when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, then we are all dispensationalists to some degree."

Of course there is an element of truth behind "dispensationalism" or it would have joined Pelagianism and Arianism on the trash heap of theological history (does anyone here believe they can earn their salvation or that Jesus was not really God incarnate ... I didn't think so.)

So the question, to paraphrase William Blake ... "How much is enough and how much is too much?"

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

'All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2Tim 3:16-17)

Hello there,

Dispensationalism, for me personally, is simply a means to an end. The end being to know Christ in all His fulness.

It provides the means whereby the word of God can be rightly divided: for although all Scripture is FOR us, nor all is ABOUT us.

It enables readers of Scripture to see what is applicable to them and what is not: and frees them from private interpretation or traditional practices which are no longer applicable.

'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2 Tim. 2:15)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi the idea of dispensationalism shows that from the beginning like Abraham righteousness was attained through faith as Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Now apart from faith no one was declared righteous no matter how many sacrifices they made. When Jesus came along and told of Lazarus and the rich man we see righteous Abraham in the grave in a place of comfort but not in heaven. When Jesus said it is finished he descended into hell and set captivity captive and all those righteous were actually all redeemed by the blood of the lamb as they sing in Rev 5
8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us[fn] kings[fn] and priests to our God;
And we[fn] shall reign on the earth.”

 

[Dan Perez]

Hi the idea of dispensationalism shows that from the beginning like Abraham righteousness was attained through faith as Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Now apart from faith no one was declared righteous no matter how many sacrifices they made. When Jesus came along and told of Lazarus and the rich man we see righteous Abraham in the grave in a place of comfort but not in heaven. When Jesus said it is finished he descended into hell and set captivity captive and all those righteous were actually all redeemed by the blood of the lamb as they sing in Rev 5
8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us[fn] kings[fn] and priests to our God;
And we[fn] shall reign on the earth.”

I begin it , with Adam and Eve , did they walk by FAITH or by SIGHT ?

That is where it all began , WITH the First Adam and the last ADAM , 1 Cor 15:45 .

Israel always WALKED by sight !!

dan p

 

[readywriter]

Hi the idea of dispensationalism shows that from the beginning like Abraham righteousness was attained through faith as Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Now apart from faith no one was declared righteous no matter how many sacrifices they made. When Jesus came along and told of Lazarus and the rich man we see righteous Abraham in the grave in a place of comfort but not in heaven. When Jesus said it is finished he descended into hell and set captivity captive and all those righteous were actually all redeemed by the blood of the lamb as they sing in Rev 5
8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us[fn] kings[fn] and priests to our God;
And we[fn] shall reign on the earth.”

Hello @BrianMcnamee,

Forgive me, but I do not understand. Why do you refer to the story of the rich man and Lazarus? Perhaps you will be kind enough to explain.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Abraham was declared righteous by faith so when he passed and ended up in the grave with all the righteous dead and not taken to heaven it is significant because it shows that the atonement for him was not yet provided. We see in Rev 5 the saints proclaim that they have all been redeemed by the blood of the lamb and will reign with him on the earth and no doubt Abraham and Lazarus were in that multitude. The point is that all are saved via the new covenant and the atonement offered on Calvary and many claim dispensationalist teach salvation was different at different epochs. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness so we see saved by faith through grace has always been the rule.

 

[Dan Perez]

[QUOTE="Brian Mcnamee,aham and Lazarus were in that multitude. The point is that all are saved via the new covenant and the atonement offered on Calvary and many claim dispensationalist teach salvation was different at different epochs. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness so we see saved by faith through grace has always been the rule.[/QUOTE]

Question , were they saved by the NEW COVENANT and ATONEMENT in the same period of time ?

dan p

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

Dispensationalism, for me personally, is simply a means to an end. The end being to know Christ in all His fulness.

For me it is the right prescription of glasses for understanding the scriptures. I am thankful that early in my learning I was sent to the right dispensary for this prescription.

 

[Guojing]

Abraham was declared righteous by faith so when he passed and ended up in the grave with all the righteous dead and not taken to heaven it is significant because it shows that the atonement for him was not yet provided. We see in Rev 5 the saints proclaim that they have all been redeemed by the blood of the lamb and will reign with him on the earth and no doubt Abraham and Lazarus were in that multitude. The point is that all are saved via the new covenant and the atonement offered on Calvary and many claim dispensationalist teach salvation was different at different epochs. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness so we see saved by faith through grace has always been the rule.

Present salvation, in the form that is promised to us now, was never promised to anyone in the OT in the first place.

The OT saints only knew that, if they obeyed what God told them to do, they will not be cut off (Genesis 17:14)

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

you have missed my point which is the OT people knowing not the new covenant were still redeemed by the blood of the lamb making the new covenant saints. This is what they sing in Rev 6 and the story of Abraham shows that they were not heaven bound until Jesus paid for the sins of the world which included theirs. Then He ransomed them from that place of Abrahams bosom.

 

[Guojing]

you have missed my point which is the OT people knowing not the new covenant were still redeemed by the blood of the lamb making the new covenant saints. This is what they sing in Rev 6 and the story of Abraham shows that they were not heaven bound until Jesus paid for the sins of the world which included theirs. Then He ransomed them from that place of Abrahams bosom.

So are you saying all the OT saints are in Heaven now?

There is no scripture for that.

 

[Dan Perez]

you have missed my point which is the OT people knowing not the new covenant were still redeemed by the blood of the lamb making the new covenant saints. This is what they sing in Rev 6 and the story of Abraham shows that they were not heaven bound until Jesus paid for the sins of the world which included theirs. Then He ransomed them from that place of Abrahams bosom.

Would like to see a verse for me to read ?

Paul says what mission statement is for today in Eph 3:9 to make ALL to SEE what is the FELLOWSHIP od the MYSTERY as Paull wrote in Rom 16:25 which was HIDDEN in Times pertaining to the AGES .

All need to understand 1 Tim 1:4 Rather to understand God's DISPENSATION the one by FAITH .

It means to study 2 Tim 2:15 and rightly divide the word to be in the FAITH >

dan p

 

[wonderkins]

'All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2Tim 3:16-17)

Hello there,

Dispensationalism, for me personally, is simply a means to an end. The end being to know Christ in all His fulness.

It provides the means whereby the word of God can be rightly divided: for although all Scripture is FOR us, nor all is ABOUT us.

It enables readers of Scripture to see what is applicable to them and what is not: and frees them from private interpretation or traditional practices which are no longer applicable.

'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2 Tim. 2:15)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Did anyone teach dispensationalism before John Nelson Darby in the 1800s?

Also, how does it free people from private interpretation and traditional practices that are no longer needed?

 

[Dan Perez]

Did anyone teach dispensationalism before John Nelson Darby in the 1800s?

Also, how does it free people from private interpretation and traditional practices that are no longer needed?

And I see that there are those who will ever NEVER believe that Paul wrote how to rightly divide the word of TRUTH , over 2000 YEARS AGO and dispensatioalist , just have to FOLLOW and IMITATE Paul , 1 Cor 11:1 and the bible does NOT say to follow John Nelson Darby .

dan p

 

[BPPLEE]

I liked the statement R.C. Sproul (not a dispensationalist) made at a conference in Orlando ... "If you believe that things changed when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, then we are all dispensationalists to some degree."

Of course there is an element of truth behind "dispensationalism" or it would have joined Pelagianism and Arianism on the trash heap of theological history (does anyone here believe they can earn their salvation or that Jesus was not really God incarnate ... I didn't think so.)

So the question, to paraphrase William Blake ... "How much is enough and how much is too much?"

I'm on another forum and most of the discussion there is over the deity of Christ. There are Unitarians and Jehovah's Witnesses who post there and the Trinity is always being questioned.

 

[wonderkins]

And I see that there are those who will ever NEVER believe that Paul wrote how to rightly divide the word of TRUTH , over 2000 YEARS AGO and dispensatioalist , just have to FOLLOW and IMITATE Paul , 1 Cor 11:1 and the bible does NOT say to follow John Nelson Darby .

dan p

That doesn't answer the questions. John Darby is considered the father of dispensationalism. Scofield solidified it in the US. I'm asking who taught it before Darby?

How does it free people from private interpretation and traditional practices that are no longer applicable?

If you or the op want others to agree with dispensationalism, then you need to show it taught in the Bible and throughout the history of the church.

 

[BPPLEE]

That doesn't answer the questions. John Darby is considered the father of dispensationalism. Scofield solidified it in the US. I'm asking who taught it before Darby?

How does it free people from private interpretation and traditional practices that are no longer applicable?

If you or the op want others to agree with dispensationalism, then you need to show it taught in the Bible and throughout the history of the church.

The Trinity hasn't always been taught in the early history of the Church but we accept it. Trinity | Definition, Theology, & History

 

[wonderkins]

The Trinity hasn't always been taught in the early history of the Church but we accept it. Trinity | Definition, Theology, & History

Because it's taught in the Bible. Trinity is just the word to describe it. Who taught dispensationalism before John Darby? And why should I believe it? I would really like to know how it does what the op says.

 

[BPPLEE]

Because it's taught in the Bible. Trinity is just the word to describe it. Who taught dispensationalism before John Darby? And why should I believe it? I would really like to know how it does what the op says.

Where in the Bible does it say the Holy Spirit is God? Where in the Bible does it say God is 3 persons? Yet we believe it. Ephesians 4:5-6 yet I believe the Nicene Creed

 

[wonderkins]

Where in the Bible does it say the Holy Spirit is God? Where in the Bible does it say God is 3 persons? Yet we believe it.

I think that subject would derail this thread.

Why is asking who taught it before the father of dispensationalism an issue? Nobody is answering that.

And again, How does it free people from private interpretation and traditional practices that are no longer applicable?