Disparity with WoF "Founders" and Foundation Laid

[victoryword]

Some things have come up in Splat's thread and I don't want to detract from the purpose of his thread nor do I want to risk his getting closed if what I am about to ask causes controversy.


Since the subject of our "founding fathers" has come up (again) in splat's thread perhaps some of you should tell us what it is that the "founding fathers" (a phrase I am beginning to hate) did or did not teach that needs to be improved upon or taught. Here are the things I have come across in the past three weeks since I have been back on this forum:


1. The idea that God created evil. We noted that this was NOT taught by the "founding fathers." Is this an improvement to WoF doctrine


2. Is it the idea the Old Testament being written in a "permnissive sense" which, as far as I know, all of them have taught but is currently disputed on this forum. Is this an improvement on WoF?


3. OSAS? Disputed by the "founding fathers" but has become popular among the more current stream of WoF preachers. Does this question the integrity of certain visions by Hagin like the one with the woman who was a pastor's wife but later went to hell? If it does, do you believe he lied about some of his visions or was he delusional?


This is just a sample of what I have seen since I have been back here of conflicts and disparities. I am not sure anymore of what some might believe is foundational to being WoF but I always thought that agreement concerning God's character was certainly foundational to it.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Good observations Troy.
There is a seep down effect taking place.
Many of the teachers and preachers came into the WOF from old line Pentacostal, and then charismatic backgrounds. The brought along in themselves the roots of these movements.
The reason WoF is different is because there exists a foundational difference. These old line folks had foundations that really did not support their WoF higher beliefs. Down through the years this has caused much internal conflict in these believers. Because their incorrect foundations did not support the WoF teachings that laid upon them, many times their faith would fail. Example: You cannot believe that Jesus answers prayers if your foundations include a contradictory element that says He will not. You can see this in people who claim they tried WoF but "came out" of the movement because they claimed it did not work for them. Questioning them shows why. They had contradictions between the WoF teachings and the foundational teachings they brought in with them. The most profound of these is sovereignty. They believe that all things are subject to the sovereignty of God and they fail to see that Jesus and the gospel are the true expression of that sovereignty. Jesus is the exact image and the prefect statement of what God's sovereign will is. I call this error the "mere theism" error. They essentially overrule the gospel and what Jesus said with the "general attributes of God."
Today this is catching up with WoFers. A process is taking place where these errors in our foundational teachings are being brought to light and a deeper theological model is being formed within us.

 

[Truthfrees]

I agree with what both of you are saying.

Huge ministries that have come out apart from wof, claim wof roots, claim wof is in error, etc, are the teachers who have "mixed" foundations.

I had foundational problems until I chose to listen closely to only the founding wof teachers (those who teach only wof, have not departed, have not criticized wof as a movement).

I forced myself to listen to what they were saying word by word repetitively until I saw what they saw. It was the only way I could change my foundation from my previous theological training to PURELY wof training.

I believe huge ministry teachers who have wof roots, believe some of wof foundational teaching is wrong, and failed at wof on some points, are those who have mixed theological foundations, which gave them different results than our founding teachers had.

IOW, wof founding teachers had a lot of failures, but worked it through, by discovering and correcting their wrong thinking and application. They didn't need to correct wof, they attained success by correcting themselves.

 

[Jedi.Kep]

Some things have come up in Splat's thread and I don't want to detract from the purpose of his thread nor do I want to risk his getting closed if what I am about to ask causes controversy.

Controversy? Here? You. Can't. Be. Serious.

Since the subject of our "founding fathers" has come up (again) in splat's thread perhaps some of you should tell us what it is that the "founding fathers" (a phrase I am beginning to hate) did or did not teach that needs to be improved upon or taught. Here are the things I have come across in the past three weeks since I have been back on this forum:

"Founding Fathers." An interesting idea indeed. Rubbish when you consider the histories and who influenced who.

1. The idea that God created evil. We noted that this was NOT taught by the "founding fathers." Is this an improvement to WoF doctrine

I haven't bothered much with this idea, so I reserve comments on this.

2. Is it the idea the Old Testament being written in a "permnissive sense" which, as far as I know, all of them have taught but is currently disputed on this forum. Is this an improvement on WoF?

Permissive sense is quite foundational, and hinges on the character of God as revealed through Jesus Christ (The image of God on Earth).

3. OSAS? Disputed by the "founding fathers" but has become popular among the more current stream of WoF preachers. Does this question the integrity of certain visions by Hagin like the one with the woman who was a pastor's wife but later went to hell? If it does, do you believe he lied about some of his visions or was he delusional?

Just who taught OSAS? Certainly not "foundational" Word of Faith folks. To imply that Hagin taught such nonsense is quite silly.

This is just a sample of what I have seen since I have been back here of conflicts and disparities. I am not sure anymore of what some might believe is foundational to being WoF but I always thought that agreement concerning God's character was certainly foundational to it.

God revealed His character through the person and work of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the image of God in operation on Earth. What Jesus would or would not do, shows us how God operates.

 

[now faith]

What is the point of this thread?

The language of the post is a us against you attitude why create discord?

Are people here in fear that their perception of Word of Faith is in danger?

2 Timothy: 1. 7. For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Word of Faith is a movement not a denomination,besides that there are disagreements in denominations as well.
Head on over to the Baptist forum if you think we disagree,you will find many differences among them.

The real importance of what is written among us here is those who observe us.
Do the observers see Christ in us? By our comments does our light so shine before men?

Or do we look like a bunch of bickering Rudy poos? The very thing that moves people away from salvation.

1 Corinthians: 8. 11. And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12. But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 13. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Let's try to give God the praise he deserves from now on,we are all in the Body of Christ,let's rebuke the the real reason for discord among the brethren,let's as one body rebuke the devil and restore our fellowship.