• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Disiplining children

Status
Not open for further replies.

soulsisterclaire

JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME
Feb 26, 2002
578
0
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟1,279.00
I strongly believe in NOT spanking children/babies.

I believe that all of the verses on the "rod" in the Bible are symbolic, not literal, as much in the Bible is symbolic.

I discipline with love and alternatives. It takes a great deal of patience to do this, but is well worth it in the end. Spanking is a short term selfish solution with long term problems. Most of the time a child will misbehave when they need attention or are not being challenged intellectualy or out of boredom. Once a child is given these things, they will not misbehave. A child is not capable of being "spoiled" or manipulative. They are innocent. See this website for more info or do a web search.

http://www.neverhitachild.org

Great site and they give alternatives to spanking.

I would never hit an adult if they misbhaved so why would I want to hit a child/baby? Children deserve the same respect as adults.

Praise God! :clap:
 
Upvote 0

soulsisterclaire

JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME
Feb 26, 2002
578
0
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟1,279.00
This is very long, I am sorry. I thought it important enough to post it in it's entirety.

Twenty Alternatives to Punishment
by
Aletha Solter, Ph.D.
For more information about this approach to parenting, see The Aware Baby, Helping Young Children Flourish, and Tears and Tantrums by Aletha Solter, Ph.D. (available from Shining Star Press, P.O. Box 206, Goleta, CA 93116, U.S.A.).

1. LOOK FOR UNDERLYING NEEDS.
example: Give your child something to play with while waiting in line.

2. GIVE INFORMATION AND REASONS.
example: If your child colors on the wall, explain why we color on paper only.

3. LOOK FOR UNDERLYING FEELINGS.
Acknowledge, accept & listen to feelings.
example: If your child hits his baby sister, encourage him to express his anger and jealousy in harmless ways. He may need to cry or rage.

4. CHANGE THE ENVIRONMENT.
This is sometimes easier than trying to change the child.
example: If your child repeatedly takes things out of the kitchen cupboards, put a childproof lock on them.

5. FIND ACCEPTABLE ALTERNATIVES.
Redirect your child's behavior.
example: If you do not want your child to build a fort in the dining room, don't just say no. Tell her where she can build one.

6. DEMONSTRATE HOW YOU WANT YOUR CHILD TO BEHAVE.
example: If your child pulls a cat's tail, show her how to pet a cat. Do not rely on words alone.

7. GIVE CHOICES RATHER THAN COMMANDS.
Decision-making empowers children; commands invite a power struggle.
example: "Would you like to brush your teeth before or after putting your pajamas on?"

8. MAKE SMALL CONCESSIONS.
example: "I'll let you skip brushing your teeth tonight because you are so tired."

9. PROVIDE FOR A PERIOD OF PREPARATION.
example: If you are counting on company for dinner, tell your child how you expect him to behave. Be specific. Role-playing can help prepare children for potentially difficult situations.

10. LET NATURAL CONSEQUENCES OCCUR (when appropriate).
Don't rescue too much.
example: A child who does not hang up her bathing suit and towel may find them still wet the next day.

11. COMMUNICATE YOUR OWN FEELINGS.
Let children know how their behavior affects you.
example: "I get so tired of cleaning up crumbs in the living room."

12. USE ACTIONS WHEN NECESSARY.
example: If your child insists on running across streets on your walks together, hold his hand tightly (while explaining the dangers).

13. HOLD YOUR CHILD.
Children who are acting aggressively or obnoxiously can benefit from holding, in a loving and supportive way, that allows them to channel their pent-up feelings into healing tears.

14. REMOVE YOUR CHILD FROM THE SITUATION, AND STAY WITH HER.
Use the time for listening, sharing feelings, holding, and conflict-resolution.

15. DO IT TOGETHER, BE PLAYFUL.
Many conflict situations can be turned into games.
examples: "Let's pretend we're the seven dwarfs while we clean up," "Let's take turns brushing each other's teeth."

16. DEFUSE THE SITUATION WITH LAUGHTER.
example: If your child is mad at you, invite him to express his anger in a playful pillow fight with you. Play your part by surrendering dramatically. Laughter helps resolve anger and feelings of powerlessness.

17. MAKE A DEAL, NEGOTIATE.
example: If you're ready to leave the playground and your child is having fun, reach an agreement on the number of times she may go down the slide before leaving.

18. DO MUTUAL CONFLICT-RESOLUTION.
Discuss ongoing conflicts with your children, state your own needs, and ask for their help in finding solutions. Determine rules together. Hold family meetings.

19. REVISE YOUR EXPECTATIONS.
Young children have intense feelings and needs, and are naturally loud, curious, messy, willful, impatient, demanding, creative, forgetful, fearful, self-centered, and full of energy. Try to accept them as they are.

20. TAKE A PARENTAL TIME-OUT.
Leave the room, and do whatever is needed to regain your sense of composure and good judgment (example: call a friend, cry, meditate, take a shower).

Copyright © 1996 by Aletha Solter. All rights reserved. A previous version of this article appeared in Mothering Magazine, Vol. 65, 1992.
 
Upvote 0

soulsisterclaire

JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME
Feb 26, 2002
578
0
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟1,279.00
Ten Reasons Not to Hit Your Kids by Jan Hunt, M.Sc.


In Norway and Sweden, it is illegal for a parent, teacher, or anyone else to spank a child. In some states and provinces, it is only illegal for a teacher to spank. In all areas of North America, physical punishment by a parent, as long as it is not severe, is still seen by many as necessary discipline, and condoned, or even encouraged.
For the past several years, many psychiatrists, sociological researchers, and parents have recommended that we seriously consider banning the physical punishment of children. The most important reason, according to Dr. Peter Newell, coordinator of the organization End Punishment of Children (EPOCH)1, is that "all people have the right to protection of their physical integrity, and children are people too."2

1. Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves. Extensive research data is now available to support a direct correlation between corporal punishment in childhood and aggressive or violent behavior in the teenage and adult years. Virtually all of the most dangerous criminals were regularly threatened and punished in childhood. It is nature's plan that children learn attitudes and behaviors through observation and imitation of their parents' actions, for good or ill. Thus it is the responsibility of parents to set an example of empathy and wisdom.

2. In many cases of so-called "bad behavior", the child is simply responding in the only way he can, given his age and experience, to neglect of basic needs. Among these needs are: proper sleep and nutrition, treatment of hidden allergy, fresh air, exercise, and sufficient freedom to explore the world around him. But his greatest need is for his parents' undivided attention. In these busy times, few children receive sufficient time and attention from their parents, who are often too distracted by their own problems and worries to treat their children with patience and empathy. It is surely wrong and unfair to punish a child for responding in a natural way to having important needs neglected. For this reason, punishment is not only ineffective in the long run, it is also clearly unjust.

3. Punishment distracts the child from learning how to resolve conflict in an effective and humane way. As the educator John Holt wrote, "When we make a child afraid, we stop learning dead in its tracks." A punished child becomes preoccupied with feelings of anger and fantasies of revenge, and is thus deprived of the opportunity to learn more effective methods of solving the problem at hand. Thus, a punished child learns little about how to handle or prevent similar situations in the future.

4. "Spare the rod and spoil the child", though much quoted, is in fact a misinterpretation of Biblical teaching. While the "rod" is mentioned many times in the Bible, it is only in the Book of Proverbs that this word is used in connection with parenting. In fact, King Solomon's harsh methods of discipline led his own son, Rehoboam, to become a tyrannical and oppressive dictator who only narrowly escaped being stoned to death for his cruelty. In the Bible there is no support for harsh discipline outside of Solomon's Proverbs. Jesus saw children as being close to God, and urged love, never punishment.3

5. Punishment interferes with the bond between parent and child, as it is not human nature to feel loving toward someone who hurts us. The true spirit of cooperation which every parent desires can arise only through a strong bond based on mutual feelings of love and respect. Punishment, even when it appears to work, can produce only superficially good behavior based on fear, which can only take place until the child is old enough to resist. In contrast, cooperation based on respect will last permanently, bringing many years of mutual happiness as the child and parent grow older.

6. Many parents never learned in their own childhood that there are positive ways of relating to children. When punishment does not accomplish the desired goals, and if the parent is unaware of alternative methods, punishment can escalate to more frequent and dangerous actions against the child.

7. Anger and frustration which cannot be safely expressed by a child become stored inside; angry teenagers do not fall from the sky. Anger that has been accumulating for many years can come as a shock to parents whose child now feels strong enough to express this rage. Punishment may appear to produce "good behavior" in the early years, but always at a high price, paid by parents and by society as a whole, as the child enters adolescence and early adulthood.

8. Spanking on the buttocks, an erogenous zone in childhood, can create in the child's mind an association between pain and sexual pleasure, and lead to difficulties in adulthood. "Spanking wanted" ads in alternative newspapers attest to the sad consequences of this confusion of pain and pleasure. If a child receives little parental attention except when being punished, this will further merge the concepts of pain and pleasure in the child's mind. A child in this situation will have little self-esteem, believing he deserves nothing better. For more on this topic, see "The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children".

Even relatively moderate spanking can be physically dangerous. Blows to the lower end of the spinal column send shock waves along the length of the spine, and may injure the child. The prevalence of lower back pain among adults in our society may well have its origins in childhood punishment. Some children have become paralyzed through nerve damage from spanking, and some have died after mild paddlings, due to undiagnosed medical complications.

9. Physical punishment gives the dangerous and unfair message that "might makes right", that it is permissible to hurt someone else, provided they are smaller and less powerful than you are. The child then concludes that it is permissible to mistreat younger or smaller children. When he becomes an adult, he can feel little compassion for those less fortunate than he is, and fears those who are more powerful. This will hinder the establishment of meaningful relationships so essential to an emotionally fulfilling life.

10. Because children learn through parental modeling, physical punishment gives the message that hitting is an appropriate way to express feelings and to solve problems. If a child does not observe a parent solving problems in a creative and humane way, it can be difficult for him to learn to do this himself. For this reason, unskilled parenting often continues into the next generation.

Gentle instruction, supported by a strong foundation of love and respect, is the only truly effective way to bring about commendable behavior based on strong inner values, instead of superficially "good" behavior based only on fear.
 
Upvote 0

Avila

Boohoo moomoo, cebu
Feb 6, 2002
1,231
5
48
Indiana
Visit site
✟2,479.00
Faith
Catholic
I wholeheartedly agree with soulsisterclaire. I did much praying and research before I decided not to spank my children. I believe that the "spare the rod and spoil the child" refers to teaching a child. That is what the word discipline basically means - to teach. I have occasionally given him a tap on the bottom to get his attention, but I've never, ever spanked him - nor do I plan to.
 
Upvote 0

VOW

Moderator
Feb 7, 2002
6,912
15
73
*displaced* CA, soon to be AZ!
Visit site
✟43,000.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
My son has ADD, and let me tell you, an ADD child doesn't learn ANYTHING from spanking. I'm ashamed to admit that there WERE times, mostly borne of my own frustration, that I resorted to a paddling. The ONLY thing my son learned was that I hurt him.

I do believe in a swat on the rear in times of danger, such as when a toddler makes a mad dash to the street in a fit of giggling laughter. A smack on the pants lets the child know that we're talking SERIOUS here.

The most effective discipline is redirection. However, today's tired parents often come crawling home from work and don't have the energy to get up off their heinies to physically redirect the child appropriately. (Children are not voice-activated or remote controlled!)

The biggest deterrent to physical punishment is this: Beware. That kid will be bigger and stronger than you someday.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
Upvote 0

Brother_Joey_Gowdy

Single and Looking for a Proverbs 31 Wife
Jan 31, 2002
631
10
44
Visit site
✟23,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ill be blunt and state what the Bible says:
(you all should know this verse)

'He who spareth the rod- spoileth the child'

and I must ask any of you who do dont believe that-
Do you believe the Bible is the true inspired word of God?
If so, then why dont you believe that verse?

:)

Anyone want more verses that support that? Ill be GLAD to show you the truth thru the Word of God. :eek:
 
Upvote 0

Blynn

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2002
8,517
82
✟37,809.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
I think God gives us a perfect example with the way that He disiplines His own children.


He disiplines out of love not anger.

It is too easy to spank out of anger or frustration.


Although, I have used the attention getting swat on the behind I do not spank my children as a form of disipline.

I think that it is possible to raise well behaved children without spanking.

Thank you for all your informative posts soulsisterclaire. :)

God bless
Roberta
 
Upvote 0

Avila

Boohoo moomoo, cebu
Feb 6, 2002
1,231
5
48
Indiana
Visit site
✟2,479.00
Faith
Catholic
Bro Joey Gowdy - Have you read anything about sheepherding in biblical times? The sheep were priceless to their shepherds, who often needed to use their staffs to guide the sheep. However, sheep are quite delicate and peculiar animals. Any harsh treatment can harm fertility - which is harmful to the value of the sheep. From what I've read, shepherd didn't really strike their sheep that much. They used their staffs to gently guide the sheep into the proper direction. So, yes, I believe the verse - my interpretation is just different from yours based on my readings. Here was the clincher that helped me finalize my decision to not spank. http://www.stophitting.com/religion/10reasons.php
 
Upvote 0

soulsisterclaire

JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME
Feb 26, 2002
578
0
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟1,279.00
I am very impressed with the responses to this thread! I expected the opposite, as that is what usually happens at other Christian sites, due to that misunderstood word "rod"

Pray for the children, pray for all parents to know how to discipline with love and not fear.

Praise God! :clap:
 
Upvote 0

Avila

Boohoo moomoo, cebu
Feb 6, 2002
1,231
5
48
Indiana
Visit site
✟2,479.00
Faith
Catholic
Me too!!! I have come up against great opposition by my parents. They think that my parenting style will turn him into a godless heathen (or worse yet, a practicing Catholic) because I believe in gentle discipline, teaching, and redirecting. It is a tough job, and I think we should be supportive of one another as parents, not judgemental.

:)
 
Upvote 0

soulsisterclaire

JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME
Feb 26, 2002
578
0
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟1,279.00
Originally posted by Avila
Me too!!! I have come up against great opposition by my parents. They think that my parenting style will turn him into a godless heathen (or worse yet, a practicing Catholic) because I believe in gentle discipline, teaching, and redirecting. It is a tough job, and I think we should be supportive of one another as parents, not judgemental.

:)

Sounds as if we have much in common Avila! Do you subscribe to the beliefs of "attachment parenting"? I believe in and practice most of them, such as the "family bed" and breastfeeding till the child is ready to wean, etc...this way of parenting came natural to me, and I didn't even know it had a name, but once I researched it(I love to research my interests on the net)it matched my belief system.

Just a thought...
 
Upvote 0

InspectorVol

Regular Member
Feb 6, 2002
328
0
62
TN
Visit site
✟23,183.00
Faith
Christian
After reading some of the responses here I have a question. Why do you think people who spank their children don't love them? I have 3 kids and have spanked them all. They range in age from 18 to 11 and as far as I know they don't think I hate them or anything.
Children need discipline. Some spank, some don't. Neither way is foolproof. Some kids need a firm hand some don't. I think spanking is a very viable option in rearing children. I was spanked as a child and it didn't have any ill affects on me. For the person who posted the notion that spanking the buttocks can cause confusion because it is an erogenous zone is a bunch of bull. Of all the spanking I got or other people I have talked to who were spanked not one person ever had anything on thier mind except that my butt hurts and I ain't doing that no more.
Let me tell you of one incidence of mine: I was maybe 5 when this happened. My dad was going up to his dads house for something, I forget what. Anyway I wanted to go but was told I couldn't and was warned not to try and sneak off anyway(it wasn't but maybe a 1/4 mile at the most). But being a kid I decided to do it anyway because i wanted to go. Well of course I got caught and my mother walked up and got me and switched my little tail and legs part of the way home. Needless to say from that time on I never left the house without my mother knowing where I was going and when I would be back and that continued until I married and left home. No hard feelings, don't feel unloved, don't think I was mistreated. What I learned was there are consequences to my actions. You may agree with spanking, or you may not. But don't assume because you don't that that puts you on some higher plane of existence where you have more love for your child than I do or others that may spank thier children.
 
Upvote 0

Avila

Boohoo moomoo, cebu
Feb 6, 2002
1,231
5
48
Indiana
Visit site
✟2,479.00
Faith
Catholic
Sounds as if we have much in common Avila! Do you subscribe to the beliefs of "attachment parenting"? I believe in and practice most of them, such as the "family bed" and breastfeeding till the child is ready to wean, etc...this way of parenting came natural to me, and I didn't even know it had a name, but once I researched it(I love to research my interests on the net)it matched my belief system.

Yep! In fact, I am nursing my *gasp* toddler as I type. He isn't ready to wean, I'm not ready to wean, and I can't see pushing him into a milestone he's not ready for. We don't have a family bed, per se, but if I'm particularly tired or he's sick, he's in bed with us all night. On a regular day, though, he still comes into bed with us for about an hour in the morning. That is just how it worked for us. I try to listen to his cues and go from there. There is an enormous amount of teaching that takes place - just from showing him that he's important. Of course, harder still is where I'm now teaching him that he can't have everything he wants, even though he wants it....

Vol, I'm definitely not an advocate of spanking, for many reasons, but I also don't know what to think of the "erogenous zone" theory. I will tell you, however, that I know my mom "sinfully" paddled me at least once. I can't even remember what I did - I think it was not telling "the whole truth" (whatever that means, as a small child, you don't know to tell anything other than the story as you see it). Anyway, she beat my behind so hard that it was completely purple and all swollen because she was mad at me. I think it was because by my not "telling both sides of the story", she got embarrassed in public and took it out on me. Although my mom has done wonderful, loving things for me in the past, I still remember that (and countless other) time(s) when I was spanked unneccessarily. The situation(s) could've been handled much better & I could've learned a good lesson from it (them). Instead, I learned that I need to be perfect to be loved and to avoid a spanking, and I am worthless if I cannot achieve perfection. Granted, probably nearly all parents who spank do not take it to the extremes that my mom did, but that is one situation I don't want to risk repeating.
 
Upvote 0

hopeee

Active Member
Mar 8, 2002
249
1
✟596.00
In my home I use a variety of things for discipline. I have learned that using one method of discipline doesn't always work all the time for all situations... Kids are smart, and they CAN be manipulative.... They want things there way.... And lots of times they don't want to listen to parents..... Every child is different....This is why parents need to find what works with their child.... Redirection might work for some kids, but not for others....Here are some examples: My sister's kid is very stubborn... It is just his personality.... She warns him first, and if he continues, he gets a time-out. If this still doesn't work he gets a spank on the bottom. She tries re-direction first or a warning, but there are times when her boy just doesn't listen.... She saves the spanking on the butt for serious behavior problems like (biting his baby sister).....
My discipline is pretty similiar to hers... I always give my kids choices.... I warn them and tell them what will happen if they choose not to listen..... (They are warned before hand)! I like to use time-outs a lot.... After a time-out we talk about why they were in time-out in the first place, and how they could of made better choices..... I also take privleges away; like using the computer or watching T.V. I also send them to their bedroom sometimes too. I do believe in spanking for serious behavior problems.... My daughter started biting her sister! When time-outs didn't work, and taking toys away didn't work; she got a spanking on the butt....(I never hit hard), but she knows that I was not happy with her behavior...Then I sent her to her room. I always talked to my daughter about her behavior, and why I had to discipline her... As a parent, I truly believe that it is the parent's job to discipline their child.... A parent is not doing their child ANY favors by not discipling their kid, because very soon that child will have serious problems in school, and in life's choices... They need to learn right from wrong...If a parent can't control their child at 4 years old, then what are they going to do when their kid is 16? Unfortunetly, the kids that were not disciplined by their parents, ended up in jail or worse.... I believe that the Bible emphasizes the importance of discipling. By discipling your child, you are showing your child that you love them and care about them... You want them to grow up to be a good person. It is a parent's job! Kids need to know right from wrong... Of course, kids don't like to be disciplined, but that is life... There are rules and consequences to everyone's actions... I would rather that my child learn about "consequences" when they are young, then learning about them behind bars... There are too many parents today who do not take the time to discipline their kids. They let their children do anything, because they want to be their kid's best friend... (But, when you are a parent, you have to discipline your kid) I believe with love, nuturing, spending time with your child, and discipline, they will grow to be loving, nuturing, caring, respectful people... I hope this helps.... Hope :wave:
 
Upvote 0

StogusMaximus

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2002
2,410
7
Visit site
✟4,841.00
Faith
Protestant
I am part of the minority. I believe in spankings. I have seen too many children who head down the wrong road because they have no fear of or respect for their parents.

I look at the generations that grew up with spankings and the generation that has grown up without spankings. I see the later being worse off.
 
Upvote 0

Christi

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2002
2,548
219
Visit site
✟4,038.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My husband always takes the disobedient child "for a ride" if all my methods fail. I have no idea what goes on, nobody says, but when they come back they have a whole new attitude. Polite, helpful, respectful. Whatever he does or says, it works! (These are the older sons, age 16 and 13). I've swatted my 4 year old on the bottom a few times, when she is out of control, and she calms right down. My older daughter I never had to discipline her much at all, she was a very compliant child. My younger son, age 10, is more difficult to deal with, but I tend to have to send him to his room. It seems if he has time to cool off, (and me) then we can deal with the action and consequences for his action in a much more effective manner. All kids are different, and different things work on different kids. I kind of like Dr. James Dobson's ideas, they make sense to me.
 
Upvote 0

hopeee

Active Member
Mar 8, 2002
249
1
✟596.00
Hi there again... I forgot to add something in my earlier post, so I am adding it now... As I mentioned before, I do believe in spanking for certain circumstances (serious behavior problems). I know someone mentioned before that spanking just teaches the child to learn how to hit when they get upset... I used to believe this too. But, I soon found out that other Parents who NEVER spanked their children's bottoms or even used other methods of discipline; their kids were the ones who hit, and were the bullies! Spanking I believe, actually has the opposite effect... It teaches the child boundries, and consequences for one's behavior...
Then I got to thinking that if we never spank our kids, will they know the consequences of physical discipline? (Corporal Punishment)? Physical discipline is a fact of life. They need to learn that if they don't follow rules, they might be punished physically by the law. What i mean is that there is such a thing as Physical Punishment in countries---(the Death Penalty!) Or if your kid goes around punching people; he will soon learn that they might hit back! So I feel that a little swat on the butt once in awhile to discipline behavior problems is actually good. It is giving the child a dose of reality. This is what I believe... Have a wonderful day.... Hope :)
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.