disgraceful decadence of liturgy

PeterPaul said:

Exactly! We have made of our God a buddy, perhaps because society has taught that we should be friends with our children. This, IMO is a faulty relationship, and has sprung as early as the '60's. Children no longer view their parents as sovereigns, but as friends who they can abuse.

Check every apparition, from Saul to the present, and you will find everyone ON THEIR KNEES (for those of you who like to stand)! I didn't see anyone say "how are you brother?", but tremble and fall to their knees in adoration, fear and awe.

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Amen to that

Just because we would like a little life in our worship, we are called hypocrites and are accused of lacking respect for God?

Going a little bit overboard on the insults ... don't you think?

Eye_n_stl said:

Stormy, just to reitterate!

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I just want to reiterate that it isn't the music or the celebration that I have a problem with. I just think that maybe the real meaning of the Mass is being missed at some of the services that are jamming out with saxaphones and electric guitars and playing more late-dated style of music... along with the handwavy clapping and such. We remember what Christ did for us, but we also remember His Sacrafice, his Death, the Blood that was shed for humanity. There is a certain amount of reverence that the Mass deserves for that.

Hey.. I like Christian rock. I just don't think it belongs in the Liturgy.

The entire Mass is a prayer, and that is why the music should be reverent.

Miss Shelby said:

I just want to reiterate that it isn't the music or the celebration that I have a problem with. I just think that maybe the real meaning of the Mass is being missed at some of the services that are jamming out with saxaphones and electric guitars and playing more late-dated style of music... along with the handwavy clapping and such. We remember what Christ did for us, but we also remember His Sacrafice, his Death, the Blood that was shed for humanity. There is a certain amount of reverence that the Mass deserves for that.

Hey.. I like Christian rock. I just don't think it belongs in the Liturgy.

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Amen!

Stormy said:

Just because we would like a little life in our worship, we are called hypocrites and are accused of lacking respect for God?

Going a little bit overboard on the insults ... don't you think?

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We like...we like...you certainly are proving the point

BTW: No one insulted you except the Gospel of St. Matthew.

I can't abide modern music during Mass - it is supposed to be a solemn occasion. I think the Vatican published a list of approved instrument for the mass.

However, when our children their First Communion at my church, the school choir insisted on clapping during one of the hymns. Like some others I refused to join in.

PeterPaul said:

The day I hear Michael Jackson being played at Mass (Don't stop til you get enough) I'm seriously thinking about creating a rogue Canon Cop element.

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I'll be joining you if it happens.

Stormy said:

Just because we would like a little life in our worship, we are called hypocrites and are accused of lacking respect for God?

Going a little bit overboard on the insults ... don't you think?

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I am assuming you are not referring to my posts. I never said anything like that. I also did not use a mocking tone or show any disrespect. At least that is not what I felt when I wrote it. Only concern.

James

Miss Shelby said:

I just want to reiterate that it isn't the music or the celebration that I have a problem with. I just think that maybe the real meaning of the Mass is being missed at some of the services that are jamming out with saxaphones and electric guitars and playing more late-dated style of music... along with the handwavy clapping and such. We remember what Christ did for us, but we also remember His Sacrafice, his Death, the Blood that was shed for humanity. There is a certain amount of reverence that the Mass deserves for that.

Hey.. I like Christian rock. I just don't think it belongs in the Liturgy.

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Miss Shelby, you have a such a beautiful way of expressing what I (and probably others) want to say, but with such wonderful humility.

God bless you,

James

Mass should be a time of joyful noise because God has resurrected and gave his life for us in the biggest act of love. Why should not children be allowed to clap? Look this Church is bigger than the western world. At the last ordination a priest from Guinea was ordained and so an african hymn was sung and I was moved to tears but it seems you have just walked away

PeterPaul said:

We like...we like...you certainly are proving the point

BTW: No one insulted you except the Gospel of St. Matthew.

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I think it is a shame when someone uses the words of the Bible in a way in which they were never intended.

Stormy this is not a place for us

oh the drama..

To address the hypocrite comment. Please read PetePaul's words in context. He did not single anyone out and call them a hypocrite. What he said was that Mass is universal and each and every time a Mass occurs, the same thing happens elsewhere. The same thing, not a different thing. Hence the hypocrite scripture. That's it, don't read anything else into it.

And let's face it guys Mass is not a pep rally. Mass is not a time for entertainment and getting high on emotionalism. It is a Sacrifice And the Lamb of God who was offered in place of our sins ( God ) becomes present in the Eucharist right before our very eyes. It is the Last Supper all over again. Heaven comes down and touches earth every time Mass takes place.

We can save the rocking and waving hands and jumping up and down for concerts, and still praise God. But the Mass is a different kind of worship.

Michelle

Exactly Michelle.

Miss Shelby said:

It is a Sacrifice And the Lamb of God who was offered in place of our sins ( God ) becomes present in the Eucharist right before our very eyes. It is the Last Supper all over again. Heaven comes down and touches earth every time Mass takes place.

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Beautifully stated, Michelle, and it hits the nail on the head. Thank you!

Servant of the Kingdom said:

Mass should be a time of joyful noise because God has resurrected and gave his life for us in the biggest act of love. Why should not children be allowed to clap? Look this Church is bigger than the western world. At the last ordination a priest from Guinea was ordained and so an african hymn was sung and I was moved to tears but it seems you have just walked away

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It has nothing to do with feeling that the Western way is the only way. I am an Eastern Christian (so obviously that can't possibly apply to me) and there is a very obvious difference between a solemn Western Liturgy and a Solemn Eastern one. Man, if you look at the Copts and the Ethiopians they have a very rich style that is all their own. But all of them hold something in common outside of the structure. This is that the Liturgy/Mass is not geared towards people's feelings or emotions. The point of view from the Church Universal (in all of Her cultures) has always been that WE must conform to the Liturgy, not vice-versa. What is happening now is unprecedented outside of protestant movements. It is geared towards human preferences. Were I a Byzantine Catholic (I am actual Orthodox, but let's play pretend ), I would feel completely at home in a traditional Western style Mass... any Mass where an attitude of solemn reverence is kept. I would say, feel and know that "this is my Church", despite it's cultural differences. At a concert Mass I would have to intellectually convince myself of such telling myself "Ok, this priest was ordained by the bishop, who is under the Pope and I assume, therefore, that this Church holds Catholic beliefs." All of this may be so, but there lacks a feeling of security.

Before I go, let me ask you this: When you put on the Contemporary service, where are all of the instruments set up? In your experience in general, where in the Temple are the instruments set up? Please answer this.


God bless,

James

PS: Again, I challenge the supporters of contemporary Masses to go to an Eastern Catholic Church or a Trinitine Mass for a month or two and tell me if you view Contemporary worship the same. I will bet that you won't. You may still support it in theory, but you will understand a bit better where your traditional Brothers and Sisters (Eastern and Western) are coming from. I've already done the contemporary thing... and yes, I was fed spiritually there, but nothing compared to now. By the way, this challenge was not just symbolic.. I really do challenge you to do this. You can only stand to gain, regardless of if this ends up proving my point or not.