Discussions with Creationists

[Tindomerel]

*sigh*
How do you discuss with Creationists? What can you possibly do if you come with scientific proofs and they say that all scientists are liars and start throwing bible verses around...?
My boyfriend is a YEC , I'm a TE and I can't count the endless discussions we had about evolution and so on.
I gave him the websites that were suggested in another thread here - he just twists the facts so that they fit his way of thinking.
And today he told me he believes in the literal Babel story!
I really want him to see my point because he knows ZERO about evolution and linguistics and so on but nontheless denies them.
Do you guys know any good arguments that he'll hear or is it just hopeless to discuss with a YEC...?

 

[Mallon]

Since he doesn't accept science, you might try showing him that the Bible doesn't fully support YECism, either. For example, physical vs. spiritual death before the fall.
You could also always ask him why he believes what the Bible literally says about the creation account, but not what it literally says about the shape of the earth. That one tends to go above their heads, though. They tend to miss the hypocrisy.
Don't let such an issue ultimately come between you and your boyfriend, though. As Christians, you have more in common than not.

 

[Tindomerel]

Don't let such an issue ultimately come between you and your boyfriend, though. As Christians, you have more in common than not.

Thanks for your answer!
I don't let that issue come between me and my boyfriend. It's just that we both like to dicuss a lot and we are both veeeeeeeeery stubborn...
And I just want him to see my point!

 

[Pats]

Hi Tindomerel Welcome to CF and OT/TE

It is often time difficult to communicate with a boyfriend *chuckle* let alone for a hardcore Biblical literalist and a TE

I think sharing in the spirit of understanding one another's views is great and healthy.

It's this temptation some Christians have to convert everybody else that gets in the way of that often.

Personally, I don't make attempts to convert others. I think the great commission can be highly misunderstood at times. I believe we are called to demonstrate Christ's love and let others know who He is to us, not push Him on them. Same thing with Origins perspectives. We can't change anyone else's mind anyway. All we can do is share why we understand things the way we do.

It can be hard for literalists to accept non-literal interpretations. They have often times been taught in their church that the "Bible says" God created the Earth in six days, 6,000 years ago, and if you believe anything else you're not "believing in the Bible," "having enough faith," etc.

I recommend patience with him. It isn't easy for a literalist to admit that there's any chance their position may not be as hardened in cemment as they think it is, and furthermore, it can be even harder for a some males to acquiese to their female counter parts.

When I was a YEC, people coming on real strong telling me why I was wrong turned me off. But, TEs sharing with me why they believed what they believe interested me enough to listen.

Also, I was not as interested in scientific arguements as theological ones. To me, any scientific arguement could be written off as "man trusting in his own wisdom and not God's." I needed to be able to see that the Bible could support it before I would even consider a scientific arguement.

Then, arguements like Mallon suggested began to make a lot of sense to me. I saw that science had disproved many things that people of the past believed were true and thought it was heresy to argue against. At one time, scientists were put in jail, and possibly to death, for saying the Earth was not flat, because scripture supports a flat earth. I am sure the church might have even had their own "flat earth" scientists to argue against the heretical spherical earth movement. However, the truth prevailed and now most literalists don't even understand that the scriptures do support a flat earth

 

[jereth]

*sigh*
How do you discuss with Creationists? What can you possibly do if you come with scientific proofs and they say that all scientists are liars and start throwing bible verses around...?
My boyfriend is a YEC , I'm a TE and I can't count the endless discussions we had about evolution and so on.
I gave him the websites that were suggested in another thread here - he just twists the facts so that they fit his way of thinking.
And today he told me he believes in the literal Babel story!
I really want him to see my point because he knows ZERO about evolution and linguistics and so on but nontheless denies them.
Do you guys know any good arguments that he'll hear or is it just hopeless to discuss with a YEC...?

Hi Tindomerel,

Just so you know... I am a TE, but my wife is a YEC, so it's not as big an incompatibility as you might think! We both trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and that is ultimately the foundation of our marriage.

My wife and I know that we disagree strongly with each other about origins. She thinks that I've compromised on biblical infallibility because I don't read Genesis literally, while I think that she has not put enough thought into the literary and cultural context of Genesis. She is an artist and has very little science education, while I have heavily immersed myself in science during my lifetime. But when it comes to our day to day relationship my evolutionary beliefs are far less important than my ability and willingness (or lack thereof) to listen to her, care for her, put her needs before my own, etc.

Perhaps you can agree to disagree for now. I think it is important for a TE to show a YEC that their TE views really do not compromise their committment to the gospel of Christ (despite the scaremongering of YEC leaders). Perhaps when your boyfriend sees over time that you trully are committed to the scriptures, and not a compromiser, he will be willing to listen to you explain why you interpret Genesis 1-3 differently.

I look forward to more of your participation on this forum!

 

[shernren]

Whenever I talk to YECs here, my biggest question or burden is, "how can I bless him or her?" At least in theory. (Hopefully it will be practiced more often!) Sometimes it is worth trying to argue someone out of a wrong position they hold. Sometimes it just does more damage than it's worth.

Most probably you will be able to see many areas in which you can bless and edify your boyfriend without even having to go near origins theology. And hopefully he will also be able to see many ways in which he can bless you without worrying that you're the granddaughter of an ape.

Remember that you probably have more common ground with a Christian YEC than with an atheistic evolutionist. Don't give up!

 

[ArnautDaniel]

The fact of the matter is that you cannot discuss anything with anyone unless you have some common ground to work from.

You have to look at what you hold to and find things that you think "hey, I think a creationist would agree to this".

Once you find some of these you have to throw them into the argument and if the creationist opts not to agree with them, then there's really no point in pursuing the discussion.

If they do agree to whatever propositions take your fancy it is a matter of working out from them logically.

A good question is: "Does nature lie?"

If the creationist thinks "no, nature doesn't lie, scientists are wrong in what they conclude from their observations, and would affirm YEC if they looked at it rightly", then you've got something to work with.

If the creationist thinks "yes, the creation lies and looks like it is older than it is, this is a way of God testing our faith.", well then you've got a problem.

 

[CrusaderKing]

I tend to avoid these discussions like the plague because it's much like driving a spike through your skull. Sure, you've gained something, but you've also lost quite a bit in the process. I come from a family that doesn't buy into evolution, but they also don't understand it. The only way to educate someone on the theory of evolution is to get the mind open to it. Once you do that, you might have a chance.