discussion with BigChrisfilm

little_wing · Apr 22, 2006

Skeptical:

I have read that Abdu'l-Baha stated in his speeches that Baha'is should remain uninvolved with government. How can one reconcile this ideal with:

a) Avoiding persecution from unsympathetic govts.
b) The support (ostensibly) of many Baha'is for the U.N and international governance.

Thanks.

I_are_sceptical · Apr 22, 2006

Lignoba said:
I know its kinda of nitpicky, but please use except in its correct form, you say except when you mean accept, they are completely different in meaning. Also its babtism, not babtuism.

I'm only guessing here, but perhaps English is not his native language. I myself have sometimes made the assumption that everyone on the Internet is American, but it just ain't so.

I_are_sceptical · Apr 23, 2006

little_wing said:
Skeptical:

I have read that Abdu'l-Baha stated in his speeches that Baha'is should remain uninvolved with government. How can one reconcile this ideal with:

a) Avoiding persecution from unsympathetic govts.
b) The support (ostensibly) of many Baha'is for the U.N and international governance.

Thanks.

Politics, as practiced these days, is partisan. Someone who belongs to a particular party might endorse or oppose an idea because party leaders do, not because the individual really feels that way about the idea.

The Baha'i Faith teaches unity. Therefore, we avoid partisanship. That is why we do not get involved in politics, because we are afraid the Baha'is will put political affiliation first, and their Baha'i brothers and sisters second.

We appeal some government decisions we feel are unjust, but do not go beyond general appeals. Sometimes we just have to quietly take whatever an unsympathetic government dishes out.

We support the United Nations as far as it's goals and actions match ours. We feel it is a step in the right direction, ending disunity, squabbling, and war between nations, when co-operation would be so much more effective.

little_wing · Apr 23, 2006

I_are_sceptical said:
Politics, as practiced these days, is partisan. Someone who belongs to a particular party might endorse or oppose an idea because party leaders do, not because the individual really feels that way about the idea.

The Baha'i Faith teaches unity. Therefore, we avoid partisanship. That is why we do not get involved in politics, because we are afraid the Baha'is will put political affiliation first, and their Baha'i brothers and sisters second.

We appeal some government decisions we feel are unjust, but do not go beyond general appeals. Sometimes we just have to quietly take whatever an unsympathetic government dishes out.

We support the United Nations as far as it's goals and actions match ours. We feel it is a step in the right direction, ending disunity, squabbling, and war between nations, when co-operation would be so much more effective.

Yes, I guess partisan politics does clash with ideas of unity.

Thanks for your answer

BigChrisfilm · Apr 23, 2006

Little Wing, please could you take this conversation another thread, I and Sceptical have a need for this thread, please keep your comments relevant to that, I am only saying this not to offend you, but to ask that you respect the purpose for this thread.

I_are_sceptical · Apr 23, 2006

You're welcome.

BigChrisfilm · Apr 23, 2006

K, skeptic, here is the biggy, lol, if I could use the bible to prove that Jesus was god, would you believe that?

little_wing · Apr 23, 2006

BigChrisfilm said:
Little Wing, please could you take this conversation another thread, I and Sceptical have a need for this thread, please keep your comments relevant to that, I am only saying this not to offend you, but to ask that you respect the purpose for this thread.

As you wish. Good luck in your discussion with skeptical.

Peace all.

I_are_sceptical · Apr 23, 2006

BigChrisfilm said:
K, skeptic, here is the biggy, lol, if I could use the bible to prove that Jesus was god, would you believe that?

Not necessarily, because the Baha'i Scriptures have a different interpretation of certain Bible verses, therefore I think the Christians have made a few mistakes in their doctrines. So in order to convince me that you have correctly interpreted the Bible, you must first prove that Baha'u'llah's teachings are not God's Word.

But even if I did accept that Jesus is fully God, God in the flesh, how would that prove I should not follow Baha'u'llah as my Lord?

BigChrisfilm · Apr 23, 2006

I_are_sceptical said:
Not necessarily, because the Baha'i Scriptures have a different interpretation of certain Bible verses, therefore I think the Christians have made a few mistakes in their doctrines. So in order to convince me that you have correctly interpreted the Bible, you must first prove that Baha'u'llah's teachings are not God's Word.

But even if I did accept that Jesus is fully God, God in the flesh, how would that prove I should not follow Baha'u'llah as my Lord?

Well, I am still on a learning basses, so I am throwing out suggestions, and seeing what sticks, that way I will know what area I need to cover in order to make the best arguement, I also in no way want to offend you, that is why I have not just jumped right into the preach of gospel and such, which is what others would do I am sure.

BigChrisfilm · Apr 23, 2006

I_are_sceptical said:
Not necessarily, because the Baha'i Scriptures have a different interpretation of certain Bible verses, therefore I think the Christians have made a few mistakes in their doctrines. So in order to convince me that you have correctly interpreted the Bible, you must first prove that Baha'u'llah's teachings are not God's Word.

But even if I did accept that Jesus is fully God, God in the flesh, how would that prove I should not follow Baha'u'llah as my Lord?

Could you give me a general Idea of what Baha'ullah taught that makes you think it is from god, and I will try and go from there.

VonKarman · Apr 23, 2006

Shy21 said:
Handful? What about the rest of us? The bag is very small and the rest of us wants some too

hahahaa....

Sorry it took me so long to return.

:: passes out popcorn to everyone ::

Carry on...

I_are_sceptical · Apr 23, 2006

BigChrisfilm said:
that way I will know what area I need to cover in order to make the best arguement

May I suggest you pray that the Holy Spirit will inspire you with at least one argument I will find totally convincing?

I also in no way want to offend you, that is why I have not just jumped right into the preach of gospel and such, which is what others would do I am sure.

Yes, plenty of people have done that. I've survived, so I would not be offended. Of course, I am not particularly impressed with the wisdom and discernment of people who do that, either.

Could you give me a general Idea of what Baha'ullah taught that makes you think it is from god, and I will try and go from there.

There are, as you know, verses in the Gospels which indicate Jesus was claiming to be God. Yet in John 17:3 Jesus says that He is Someone other than the One True God. Baha'u'llah's teachings account for both sides of the issue, while Christian theology ignores Jesus if He says something that does not fit with what Christians want to believe. Therefore, Baha'u'llah correctly interpreted Jesus' claims, and for 2000 years Christian theologians have consistently, generation after generation, gotten it wrong.

Baha'u'llah says everyone on Earth should love each other. Christians give lip service to what Jesus taught, and continue being racist and having wars, but Baha'u'llah insists that all who follow Him must actually practice it.

BigChrisfilm · Apr 23, 2006

I_are_sceptical said:
May I suggest you pray that the Holy Spirit will inspire you with at least one argument I will find totally convincing?

Yes, plenty of people have done that. I've survived, so I would not be offended. Of course, I am not particularly impressed with the wisdom and discernment of people who do that, either.

There are, as you know, verses in the Gospels which indicate Jesus was claiming to be God. Yet in John 17:3 Jesus says that He is Someone other than the One True God. Baha'u'llah's teachings account for both sides of the issue, while Christian theology ignores Jesus if He says something that does not fit with what Christians want to believe. Therefore, Baha'u'llah correctly interpreted Jesus' claims, and for 2000 years Christian theologians have consistently, generation after generation, gotten it wrong.

Baha'u'llah says everyone on Earth should love each other. Christians give lip service to what Jesus taught, and continue being racist and having wars, but Baha'u'llah insists that all who follow Him must actually practice it.

I think I know where I need to start now, but for the moment, I am going to walmart, lol, I will be back in a few,

I_are_sceptical · Apr 23, 2006

BigChrisfilm said:
I am going to walmart, lol, I will be back in a few,

Where I'm at it's two-o-clock in the morning, and I think I'm going to go to bed now.

BigChrisfilm · Apr 23, 2006

I_are_sceptical said:
Where I'm at it's two-o-clock in the morning, and I think I'm going to go to bed now.

No prob man, it is three here, have a good night sleep, and rest up for a debate tomarrow k. See you tomarrow.

I_are_sceptical · May 18, 2006

BigChrisfilm, since you have started a thread titled "How to get to Heaven, a Christian view" I thought I would bump this thread. You either forgot about me or lost interest in trying to win me to Christ.

BigChrisfilm · May 18, 2006

I_are_sceptical said:
BigChrisfilm, since you have started a thread titled "How to get to Heaven, a Christian view" I thought I would bump this thread. You either forgot about me or lost interest in trying to win me to Christ.

I had some probs with the Mods. Anyhow, lets see where were we?

What made you want to not be a Christian?

I_are_sceptical · May 18, 2006

BigChrisfilm said:
What made you want to not be a Christian?

I took a look at the Baha'i Faith and the evidence indicated it is a brand new Revelation from God.

elijah115 · May 18, 2006

Four questions

1. Did Bahu Allah (sorry if its pelt wrong) make any prophecies that came through?

2. Was He prophecied by prophets before him?

3. Was his message for the whole world? Thus conveyed to the rest of the world in most of all languages?

4. Who witnessed his revelations? Did his witnesses write about him, or was his divine calling supported miracles?

Questions I don't know the answers to at the moment so not rhetorical. If you can answer those 4 questions and or PM the link to your response that would be cool.

discussion with BigChrisfilm

Hier stehe ich, ich kann nicht anders

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Hier stehe ich, ich kann nicht anders

Contributor

Senior Veteran

Contributor

Hier stehe ich, ich kann nicht anders

Senior Veteran

Contributor

Contributor

Active Member

Senior Veteran

Contributor

Senior Veteran

Contributor

Senior Veteran

Contributor

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency