Discussion With A Jewish Man

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DiscipleOfIAm

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I, on another forum, have been in discussion with a Jewish man. It started as a question from another new believer that asked why we do not have church on the "Sabbath". Of course, my explanation comes from the NT. It has turned into a discussion about Jewish traditions and the corruption of the Jewish priests, etc. My arguments come from Jesus and the NT. His from the Torah and tradition. Also a Catholic man has joined and is arguing tradition as he is against Sola Scriptura.

What other means or resources are there to discuss this without the NT. The Jewish man here does not recognize the NT as Scripture and he definitely does not recognize any authority of Jesus or His followers. Is this a wasted debate or discussion? I do not think I will convince this man of Jesus' deity or lead him to Christ, but perhaps I can give him some things to think about and consider that later he may remember and consider.

God Bless!
 

arunma

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I, on another forum, have been in discussion with a Jewish man. It started as a question from another new believer that asked why we do not have church on the "Sabbath". Of course, my explanation comes from the NT. It has turned into a discussion about Jewish traditions and the corruption of the Jewish priests, etc. My arguments come from Jesus and the NT. His from the Torah and tradition. Also a Catholic man has joined and is arguing tradition as he is against Sola Scriptura.

What other means or resources are there to discuss this without the NT. The Jewish man here does not recognize the NT as Scripture and he definitely does not recognize any authority of Jesus or His followers. Is this a wasted debate or discussion? I do not think I will convince this man of Jesus' deity or lead him to Christ, but perhaps I can give him some things to think about and consider that later he may remember and consider.

God Bless!

Personally I do think that this discussion may be a waste of your effort and time. No one can be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ. Believing that Sunday is the Lord's Day will not save anyone. Nor will your friend's status as a Jew save him, anymore than a person can be saved because he happens to be Chinese. I'm of the school of thought that we must always remain focused on Christ and his Gospel, because there is salvation in no one else.

But I'm not at all familiar with your discussion, and maybe you feel that if you continue your discussion, this man might at least receive a good testimony about the Gospel. Maybe you'll at least make a new friend, and that is certainly an excellent way to lead someone to Christ. If you feel that this discussion may be worth your while, then here's a piece of text by an early church father named Justin Martyr, which might help explain to this man why we worship on Sunday.
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration. (St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, Ch. 67)
So here we see not only why our spiritual ancestors worshiped on Sunday, but also how they worshiped. It's also important to note how highly these early Christians revered the prophets, the same prophets in whom modern Jews believe. Here we see that as the Apostles of the New Testament said, the prophets testify to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. This is certainly an important thing for any Jew to learn.
 
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sneezingleopard

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As Christians we are post messainic jews. We are Jewish the same way that Jesus was Jewish and paul and many of the early christians were jewish.The only difference betwen us and the jews before jesus' birth, is that we recognize that Jesus is the long awaited massiah. Jews Don't believe he is. We know that Jesus was a perfect jew who fullfilled every part of the old covenant laws and he did that in our place because we where uncapable of doing it. He didn't come to start a new religion, he came to fullfill the old. He is our perfect, sinless, unblemished lamb who died once and for all on the cross so that the high priest wouldn't have to go into the holiest of holies once a year to sacrifice an unblemished lamb. Until we read the old testament and reacognize jesus in it, we can't expect to preach very effectively to our jewish brothers and sisters about the messiah who has come. The new testamnet is filled with the old because the new covanant is a fullfilment of the old.
May the peace of Christ be with you brother,

Matthew
 
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Matthan

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As Christians, we are Christians. We are not Jews in any sense of that wonderfully descriptive title, as Paul points out several times (to the Jew first, then to the Gentile...) Christians are so unique that they cannot be compared to any other group that has ever existed. In fact, the only thing Christians share with others is that they are men on the outside. But, since nobody else has the Holy Ghost on the inside, we are all by ourselves in our own holy niche.

Matthan
 
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DiscipleOfIAm

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Thanks all! Arunma, I used your post / citation for him to read. And Matthan, you're right, the worst he can do is ignore me!

This is a religion thread on my local newspaper's website. The hard part is there is a Catholic that keeps butting in and questioning everything I say! He is obviously not Sola anything and all for traditions, etc.
 
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DiscipleOfIAm

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And another thing this brings up. We know the Jewish people do not actively seek to convert people. Should we actively seek to convert them? Obviously, the answer is yes as the Great Commission says to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel and make disciples of all nations. But, I think God has a plan to save His people. I don't know how it will all play out, but He chose His people for a reason and I do not think He has abandoned them. Being Omniscient and Omnipresent, He already knew in eternity past how this would all play out. I'm rambling! Sorry

God Bless!
 
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arunma

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And another thing this brings up. We know the Jewish people do not actively seek to convert people. Should we actively seek to convert them? Obviously, the answer is yes as the Great Commission says to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel and make disciples of all nations. But, I think God has a plan to save His people. I don't know how it will all play out, but He chose His people for a reason and I do not think He has abandoned them. Being Omniscient and Omnipresent, He already knew in eternity past how this would all play out. I'm rambling! Sorry

God Bless!

While Christians' views on the place of physical Israel in redemptive history (if any) differs from person to person, I'm glad we're in agreement that we absolutely must preach the Gospel to Jews. It is neither oppressive nor a destruction of cultural identity for Jews to become Christians. Neither is it anti-semitic to preach Jesus Christ to Jews; on the contrary we show our love for Jews by doing so. Indeed it is absolutely necessary for Jews to become Christians in order to be saved. As John the Baptist said, no one may presume to say "we have Abraham as our Father," thinking that they will be saved on that basis. There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile; both are saved only by faith in Jesus Christ.
 
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Matthan

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Thanks all! Arunma, I used your post / citation for him to read. And Matthan, you're right, the worst he can do is ignore me!

This is a religion thread on my local newspaper's website. The hard part is there is a Catholic that keeps butting in and questioning everything I say! He is obviously not Sola anything and all for traditions, etc.
Tell the catholic to read "50 Years In The Church Of Rome" if he wants to learn more. It's free on the web. I am just about finished (probably tomorrow) and it is simply a wonderful book that all should read....

Matthan
 
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KnightforGod

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Another thing to try is use the old testament.

Isaiah 53:3-5 as one example. There are many many more that describe christ and what happened to him, and what he did.

Heres a site also with many more prophesies:

http://bibleprobe.com/300great.htm

Lay it down and persevere!

Jude 3: Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

Be a contender! Ill pray for you and for his salvation. If you spend 30 years debating and he finally gets saved it will be more than worth it. Dont ever give up. Hold his feet to the fire. If he tries to get away Hold fast in the truth, and continue holding his feet to the fire.

God bless
 
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BereanTodd

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If your discussion is specifically the Sabbath, then of course the Jewish man is never going to accept the authority of why we do not honor it. The best you can do is explain it from the Scriptures and move on. He will never accept that as valid until and unless he accepts Yeshua as the promised Messiah.

Now if your question is how to prove Yeshua to be the promised Messiah, that is another discussion and would involve both the old and new testaments. But as I read it your question was more to the efficacy of continuing the discussion in regards to the Sabbath.
 
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